The_Steve Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Funny how quick people are to judge. Look at Milner and Downing in the past. It takes time to adjust to new clubs. He's improved the last few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Think people are being more than bit harsh on him. He didn't start off well but he's been getting better recently. Anyone remember Downing's first season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hardly the same though is it, Downing missed the entire pre-season and most of the first half of the season and then took time to gain his fitness, form and some might argue bottle (if he actually had any). N'Zogbia may yet come good but he doesn't really have the same excuses does he? Yes he wasn't here for pre-season but I believe he still had one, he has trained all season and so far at least with the odd glimpse as an exception he has failed to deliver. I would also point out that if he has been lacking fitness from missing pre-season then perhaps when he had the 2 week international break he should have stayed at BMH and done extra training instead of pissing off to New York shopping at the first opportunity. You may recall following that McLeish made some comments about he needed to decide what was important to him... So I'm sorry but I see little justification in making any comparison to Downing when talking about N'Zogbia as it just doesn't stand up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Of course you can make comparisons. Both started poor/average but then did well the following season. Obviously Downing has more excuses but I fail to see how they can't be compared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 10, 2012 Because the circumstances are totally different. Or is your basic point that a player can have an average/poor season then have a good season? If it is that then fair enough but using Downing as a case to illustrate the point is still not really any good for the reasons I've pointed out. I'm really struggling to see how you conclude that N'Zogbia does well next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 My point is that a player can come on in leaps and bounds in their second season as opposed to their first. I don't necessarily think N'Zogbia will come good next season, but I'm not ruling it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 10, 2012 And I'd accept that point but I don't accept the use of Downing as an illustration of it, it is a poor example. Yes players can come good one season after a previously poor one nobody would argue with that least of all me. The thing is though Downing was a good player pre-injury, took a while to recover his game and then was once again a good player while N'Zogbia has never at any stage of his career been consistent. He has had spells of good form, oddly often just before transfer windows but that is it. At this moment in time there is little or no reason to think that he will produce consistently good form this season, next season or any season. Yes he might come good next season and I will be delighted if he does but it is in no way the same as the situation with Downing where once he recovered his fitness he was always likely to return to being the consistent player he was previously. So fair point but bad example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The bloke needs time, remember he didn't really have a pre season so he's been playing catch up 100% this. Downing was garbage in his first season due to his injury and not having a pre season behind him. His second season was a massive improvement due to having had the benefit of one. Whilst you can never be certain a player will come good, i think he'll get better given more time on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Milner's a better example, he took a while to even get in our team and really got going from February 2009 which was 5 months after he signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 10, 2012 Milner's a better example, he took a while to even get in our team and really got going from February 2009 which was 5 months after he signed. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted January 10, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yeah i think he will just come good next season. Seeems to be the way with Villa wingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Milner's a better example, he took a while to even get in our team and really got going from February 2009 which was 5 months after he signed. Exactly. But surely people knew Milner from his previous spell at the club; a player who never was never shy of putting in a shift, even when he was poor you knew he was doing his best. Charles to be fair looks a little shy at times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Sir Charles will come good. He is getting better and you can see how frustrated he is with himself at times. He also looks angry when he gets subbed which I like. He wants to play and do well. I bet he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 i hope he gets better, when you watch some of his skills for wigan, even for newcastle, he was exciting, it is as if he has an eye problem at the moment, instead of going round players and looking for the space he runs directly into a group of players and loses the ball. with his skills he should be getting into the penalty box on a very regular basis, how many penalties have we won this season ? 2 being the answer , not many, and that is due to the wingers not coming inside and driving for the 6 yard box. the talent is there but like other attacking players at the club, he is not being used properly infact the only forward who can benefit from the current style of play is gabby and that is only because of his speed and can chase down hooooof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Pretty much everyone agreed that the Zog was the best option available to replace Young or Downing. Now suddenly he's shit? Ok, he has had an underwhelming start to the season, and even been a bit rubbish at times, but have people completely forgotten the goals he scored for Wigan last season? The guy has talent, and that talent has been starting to show in recent games. Iirc, he did pretty much nothing in the first half of last season at Wigan as well. Then he set the world on fire and saved that miserable club from relegation. Writing him off makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Anyone still expecting z'nog to be an ashley young/downing type player are truly nuts, he hasnt got a good delivery.. but he does have the ability to be his man, i think playing him behind the stiker and giving him no defence duties, then you would see the best out of him, this is what he did at wigan floating behind the stiker....he needs a free role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 He does have a good delivery, there's no question about that. It's his consistancy that let's him down. For every great cross there's 8 shit ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 yeah suppose thats he does have the potential to put in a good ball every know and then, but id Say marc Albrighton puts in a better deliver than n'zogbia.. its just so frustrating hes got great talent.. its just he is way to in-consistent, but i guess that could be said about of our team, e.g. warnock has had some good games, then goes and plays awful and does stupid passed like the one against Swansea i think.. just stupidity.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 As someone earlier in this thread said, or another one not sure, they sat next to Martinez at a recent game and he commented we will never get the best out of him playing him deep left sided he is at his best playing free on the right as the above poster says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think the only problem with N'Zogbia is we bought him expecting him to offer us what Downing and Young did. Eg : Tons of crosses and assists Whilst Charlie has a great dribble/run stat next to his name from his days at Wigan, he's never had a great assist record. That's simply not his game We need to use Marc as the out and out winger to put the ball into the box, and give Charlie more licence to 'thrill' The problem we've got is fitting everyone into an eleven The way I see it, we're hampred by not being able to be able to play just 2 in the middle of midfield due to the lack of pace there. We should be able to play 4-4-2, with Gabby and Bent up top, Marc and Charlie wide and with just two in the middle. But due to the lack of 'legs' and thrust in the middle we end up having to play an extra man in there We shouldn't need to play Petrov, Clark/Herd, Ireland. Two should be able to man the middle of the pitch, letting the attacking 4 do the creative stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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