Gary Gardner

[SonicVillan]

Gardner can be AS GOOD as Wilshere but I don't think he'll be better. That's not a knock on Gardner's ability but just how good Wilshere is.

I really do feel though that Gardner can be a massive player for us as he's in the same mould as Gerrard (Not comparing their ability btw). He can influence the game in many different way's in all area's of the pitch. For example DB is a great goalscorer but if other player's are having a crap game and he's not getting the service he won't do much by himself, whereas Gardner could take the game by the scruff of the neck, take the responsibility upon his shoulder's and pull the team through.

Mark my word's he'll be captain one day.

This.

I really do feel though that Gardner can be a massive player for us as he's in the same mould as Gerrard (Not comparing their ability btw)

I am. Such is my belief in his talent. Anyone who remembers when Gerrard first broke into the Liverpool first team will remember he didn't shine for his first full season, but everyone connected with Liverpool knew his class was there. He took a bit of time finding his feet at Prem level, but once he got there (and it wasn't until he was 20 or older), he didn't look back.

But no, the people who are saying he should be let go are right. If he was going to step up, he would have by now. I mean, he's been back from his 18 month injury for like a full year.

[Morpheus]

I think I preferred your posts when you had the chewing gif avatar Morpheus.

Yeah mate. Dr Jekyll has taken over my Mr Hyde at the moment and it is showing in my posts, so even though I believe there are no jems in our youth set up at the moment I will try to be less reactionary and thanks for pointing it out. :cry: :oops:

[McGregor1888]

He was gifted the oppurtunity at cov and did well. Came back to villa and was nowhere near prem standard...i remember someone told me his pass completion rate in one match last season and it was laughable.

As i say im not trying to say hes not a good player because hes an absolute tank in the next gen and was vital last season for them but the Wilshere/ox-lade statement is very extreme.

So much of the reason for that is the respective sides in which each player featured. How many Arsenal players are going to be in a position to receive the ball from Wilshere compared to when Gardner had the ball fizzed at him in a sort of "deal with that, son" way by Collins?

Put my one-footed, skinny self in the Arsenal side and watch me complete a few passes.

The sides in which the two come through count massively, it's like someone mentioned on another thread (Bannan, I think), about how Iniesta wouldn't be super effective in our side last season because last season nobody wanted or moved for the ball.

In short, Gardner is class and will thrive in a side that plays football, like our reserves do (admittedly at reserve level, but they were infinitely better to watch than our first team under 'him').

So wilshire isn't better than gardner its just the media hype and playing at arsenal makes him look good?

I'm excited about the potential player gardner could be but lets be realistic. Currently he is no where near the level that Jack Wilshire is at. Good players stand out no matter what team they are playing in.

Jack wilshire is winning england caps and winning arsenal player of the year over fabregas and RVP. Gardner is still a player who comes off the bench and fails to impress.

I'm not writing gardner off, he needs time and minutes on the pitch to improve and show us his full potential. But there is no way you can argue hes at the same level of jack wilshire.

He's not the same level as Wilshere. He's better.

Give me some examples of Wilshere's brilliance because I genuinely can't think of much that warrants the hype. (While you're thinking, I'll point you towards GG's third appearance for England's under 21s and will dwell on how he did more in thirty minutes than Henderson, Oxlade -Chamberlain and the rest of the media darlings whilst receiving relatively little media praise the next day.)

Off the top of my head, Wilshere scored two goals in the poxy Emirates Cup v Rangers (!) as a seventeen year old, scored a "wonder goal" as a kid in some youth match and played very well v Barcelona. Beyond that I'm struggling to think of anything that makes me think he is a genuine world beater who warrants being featured on the cover of a computer game. His tweets get read out every other other day on Talksport - just like Joey Barton and Rio Ferdinand - he is quite simply hooked up to savvy media and PR people. He's played fifty odd times for Arsenal and in roughly the same amount of games Marc Albrighton has scored twice as many goals and gets zero hype. (Imagine if Wilshere had scored the 20,000th Premier League goal - would we have heard the end of it?)

Here's another one for you, not only is Gardner better than Wilshere but Barry Bannan is too. Give me examples of Wilshere's brilliance (or any other youngster) and I'll try and follow up with examples of how our own youngsters are better. It's all about opinion, media hype and spin. Our lads are one hundred and twenty miles away from London and that's the reason why the likes of Wilshere (and the Chelsea lad, McEachran) get all the press, all the praise and all the hype.

Edit. Just for balance and to add to the debate: here's a highlights clip, posted by Arsenal fans, of their great hope in action for Bolton.

[AVFCforever1991]

Think he style of play is more Gerrard like than Wilshere.. All action Midfielder.

[McGregor1888]

Think he style of play if for Gerrard like than Wilshere.. All action Midfielder.

Absolutely. GG can pass and strike a dead ball too. Let's not forget, GG is younger than Wilshere and was out of the game for a very long spell, his time is yet to come. On top of that, he has had the misfortune of being thrown into first team action (like the rest of our young lads) with the most poorly run Villa team in a generation.

Let's wait and see how the next year or two pan out, I reckon our youngsters will really come on leaps and bounds. (Don't expect the London press to fall over themselves, though.)

[ryanvilla_1994]

As someone who has only seen Gardner play in the first team I'd be amazed if he turns out to be as good as Gerrard or even Wilshere. But who knows he was played out of position and under an awful manager to be fair to him so maybe we'll see the real Gary Gardner this season.

[Keyblade]

I agree with McGregor, but I wouldn't go as far. Some young English players are ridiculously overhyped. Like McEachran for example. He's done nothing at anything above reserve level, and couldn't even get a game at Swansea (he was held back by Joe Allen, who while a really good prospect is nowhere near 15M). Whereas a player like Bannan, who has senior Scotland caps in the double figures (with a few MOTM performances to boot) and 40 odd appearances for our first team is nowhere near as hyped. Not as many people know his name. But Wilshere is a different story. He plays with the confidence of someone who's been playing for years both with Arsenal and England. And if Gardner is anywhere near as good, then we've definitely got a good prospect on our hands; one worth keeping.

[bickster]

I thinking writing off Gardner at this stage in his career is particularly daft, he's got at least another two seasons to start to show what he's capable of.

[Rob182]

How old was Craig Gardner when he was sold to sha? 22 was it?

All Craig showed in his time at Villa was that he could kick the ball really hard and had a knack of picking up a yellow card per game. Then, he leaves and scores a handful of goals from midfield for the stinkers down the road!

Give GG a bit of time, he will come good, I'm sure of it. He has often been praised as the 'golden boy' of the reserves - which included Albrighton, Delfouneso, Bannan, Wiemann & Clark. The other lads have had their fair share of games in the first team and this is all Gary needs to get up to speed and really make his mark.

[8pints]

bickster

I thinking writing off Gardner at this stage in his career is particularly daft, he's got at least another two seasons to start to show what he's capable of.

I'd echo that.

[juanpabloangel18]

not only is Gardner better than Wilshere but Barry Bannan is too

Laughable.

[McGregor1888]

not only is Gardner better than Wilshere but Barry Bannan is too

Laughable.

Back up your views and I'll laugh along with you.

In a similar vein to the Wilshere link, here's one for Bannan made by Scotland supporters.

[03butpau]

not only is Gardner better than Wilshere but Barry Bannan is too

Laughable.

Back up your views and I'll laugh along with you.

Wilshere played against barcelona and was the best player on the pitch, bannan and gardner have not done this

[AVFCforever1991]

Anyone who thinks Gardner/Bannan are in the same league as Wilshere are clearly deluded.. Don't get me wrong I believe that GG can become as good as Wilshere, in the future.

[McGregor1888]

not only is Gardner better than Wilshere but Barry Bannan is too

Laughable.

Back up your views and I'll laugh along with you.

Wilshere played against barcelona and was the best player on the pitch, bannan and gardner have not done this

No he wasn't. He was the best Arsenal player on the night but Barcelona totally outplayed them and Arsenal somehow scrambled a win.

[juanpabloangel18]

not only is Gardner better than Wilshere but Barry Bannan is too

Laughable.

Back up your views and I'll laugh along with you.

PFA Young Player of the year 10/11

In PFA Team of the year 10/11

Arsenal Player of the Season 10/11 (ahead of Van Persie, Nasri, Fabregas)

12 Champions League Appearances age 20, and out for all of last season.

Funny, isn't it

[McGregor1888]

PFA Young Player of the year 10/11 - Puts him in the company of the likes of Milner and Young

In PFA Team of the year 10/11 - Puts him in the company of the likes of Richard Dunne who won a similar accolade a year or two before.

The final two points you make are down to Arsenal as a club. I would add that ninety per-cent of the teams in the Champs League are pretty average and there's plenty of clubs around Europe who have twenty year olds playing Champs League footy. Could Bannan and Gardner hold their own versus the likes of Braga and Partizan? Yep, they could, no problem at all.

[ryanvilla_1994]

The London media made it all up though JPA

[juanpabloangel18]

So now Gardner and Bannan are on a par with Milner and Young? Christ alive...

Wilshere has proven that he can compete amongst the top players around Europe, and has cemented his place in a side that contained world-class players, the same side that hasn't failed to qualify for the Champions League since God-knows when.

And your point about 90% of the teams in the CL being average is very typical of the kind of English attitude towards foreign football which most of us find embarrassing.

All Bannan and Gardner have proved to this point is that they stand out in our reserves.

You just don't have a case.

[Big_John_10]

PFA Young Player of the year 10/11 - Puts him in the company of the likes of Milner and Young

In PFA Team of the year 10/11 - Puts him in the company of the likes of Richard Dunne who won a similar accolade a year or two before.

I don't get your point.

Surely comparing him to what young, Milner and dunne have achieved just shows again how far off bannan and Gardner are to this level.

Wilshire would have been a guaranteed player to go to the euros, Gardner is still a kid sitting on our bench. It's a ridiculous comparison to make at this stage.