tonyh29 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Also, they want to take over the world. do they ? or do just a few of them want to ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Also, they want to take over the world. do they ? or do just a few of them want to ? *Enough of them to raise eyebrows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Just look at the sectarian violence across the Muslim world. A Sunni will strap bombs on himself and walk into a Shia wedding and vice versa. Even if you worship Allah and pray three times a day, and fast and don't drink, you and your children are still worth blowing into chunks of skull and flesh simply because of the sectarian difference. In the UK, our sectarian murders don't tend to involve the use of suicide bombs. Our bombers prefer to live to bomb another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 If you only pray 3 times a day you're not a very good Muslim ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 but I do wonder how just how many moderates there actually are in these countries... about 99.9% of them ? how many times have you been attacked since you've moved to the Sultanate ? None, although both friends and neighbours have had problems at different times. Once the big boss shuffles off this mortal coil then we, like most others, will be on the first plane out. These various strongmen are the cork that holds the genie of the Arab street in the bottle. Look at what is going on around the region if you doubt the rise of extremism when that balance changes. The Dictators and their Muftis (through the Imams) have spent years encouraging the people to channel their frustrations and anger at domestic issues towards external forces, usually a combo of the West, Christianity and of course, the hated Jew. When various Dictators are moved along by whatever means those extreme but widely held views move unchallenged into the corridors of power. I'm not saying whole populations subscribe to these views, but large numbers certainly do. There are usually a few older manipulators supported and empowered by young, vocal and aggressive males who intimidates the moderates. I'd estimate that split as being more like 50/50 - at best - than 99.9%, Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 It is starting to look like the attack was actually preplanned and timed for 9/11 and the protests about the video in Egypt were just a coincidence. That seems a bit more logical at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'd estimate that split as being more like 50/50 - at best - than 99.9%, Tony. maybe we are using a different definition of moderates ? Do you think all of that 50% would be prepared to die for the cause and wander into Burger King to take out a few infidels along with themselves ? I mean we " hear " how much Iran wants to wipe the Jews off the map ...and yet about 10,000 * Jews live In Iran quite openly .. posturing isn't the right word , but i still think it's only that .1 % that actually want to go get their virgins * I've seen the figure as high as 25,000 and as low as 8,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Time for the Americans to leave the entire region. The term, 'not wanted' springs to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'd estimate that split as being more like 50/50 - at best - than 99.9%, Tony. maybe we are using a different definition of moderates ? I think so. I'd class a moderate as someone who would disapprove of such attacks (I've heard 9/11 joked about by the locals frequently here, and I'm talking about people who were western educated). An extremist doesn't necessarily need to be someone who is prepared to personally detonate themselves, it's about mindset. By that definition I'd say my 50/50 holds true, and the margin would be far higher among the lesser educated. You have to understand the centrality of the religion to every aspect of peoples' lives and the influence wielded by the Imams to understand how that is possible - but it is. Going back to the genie in the bottle analogy, notice the anti-American protests sweeping the region are all (so far) in the countries that have had a change of leadership due to the Arab Spring, meaning the people are able to express themselves without being machine gunned. These protests reflect those underlying feelings. I'm sure there will be a few posters coming along to say this is all of our (the west's) own making which, if only taking recent history into account, would have at least some basis in fact. The deeper truth however is that the Islamic empire was expanded by force into Europe until it was finally checked and reversed in France and Austria. This is why we sometimes here AQ talking about a reconquest of Spain which they consider to be Muslim land. Where we in the west now think of a few decades past as ancient history, round here 500 years is no different to 5 minutes in terms of perceived grievances, slights and humiliations to be avenged. The US is hated because it is the current leader of a block of countries that live by a different set of rules and dominate the world. Their crime is twofold: being more powerful than the Muslim countries, and not being Muslim themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The US is hated because it is the current leader of a block of countries that live by a different set of rules and dominate the world. Their crime is twofold: being more powerful than the Muslim countries, and not being Muslim themselves. Which actually is brilliantly ironic when a healthy proportion of US citizens think their President is a Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The US is hated because it is the current leader of a block of countries that live by a different set of rules and dominate the world. Their crime is twofold: being more powerful than the Muslim countries, and not being Muslim themselves. Is that really the reason? China is also more powerful and not muslim but the arab world doesn't have anything against China. Furthermore, The US government is hated by a lot of western non muslim people as well so I think you might have missed the mark there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The US is hated because it is the current leader of a block of countries that live by a different set of rules and dominate the world. Their crime is twofold: being more powerful than the Muslim countries, and not being Muslim themselves. Is that really the reason? China is also more powerful and not muslim but the arab world doesn't have anything against China. The Chinese are viewed as infidels just like the rest of us, they are not however a global hegemon and are therefore not judged to pose an existential threat to the faith. Nevertheless I maintain that a lot of the hostility towards the US is small man syndrome writ large, although we haven't mentioned their obvious role in propping up some unpopular petro-monarchies and of course, guaranteeing the security of the hated Jews in Israel. Furthermore, The US government is hated by a lot of western non muslim people as well True, often people who don't even realise how lucky they are to have lived under the security blanket provided by the US since WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I, for one, appreciate the bed I sleep in thanks to the Yanks and their indiscriminate bombing in the middle east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The Chinese are viewed as infidels just like the rest of us, they are not however a global hegemon and are therefore not judged to pose an existential threat to the faith. Nevertheless I maintain that a lot of the hostility towards the US is small man syndrome writ large, although we haven't mentioned their obvious role in propping up some unpopular petro-monarchies and of course, guaranteeing the security of the hated Jews in Israel. But that's the point, isn't it? The US is hated not because of what it is (powerful, non-Muslim) but because of what it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Anyone hear Hillary Clinton's speech on the subject of the rioting? It was brilliant. If George W Bush had had the presence of mind to give a similar speech on 12 September 2001, I really believe the world would be a far more peaceful place today. Instead his response was (figuratively) to shake his fist. Yeah, let's escalate this thing and go and kick some ass, eh George? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Time for the Americans to leave the entire region. The term, 'not wanted' springs to mind. As long as North America and Europe heat their homes in the winter and pump petrol into their vehicles, American armed forces are not leaving that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Time for the Americans to leave the entire region. The term, 'not wanted' springs to mind. As long as North America and Europe heat their homes in the winter and pump petrol into their vehicles, American armed forces are not leaving that area. A good point well made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 13, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted September 13, 2012 Time for the Americans to leave the entire region. The term, 'not wanted' springs to mind. As long as North America and Europe heat their homes in the winter and pump petrol into their vehicles, American armed forces are not leaving that area. A good point well made.It's true. But the price for that heating and driving will be more 9/11s and 7/7s. Or maybe worse. Dirty bombs? Nukes? Wouldn't bet against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Im finding the whole thing quite hilarious. The film itself was piss poor and not really funny at all but the reaction has been great to watch. I dislike Islam with a passion and to watch these idiots shoot guns into the air and run around in towels is always great viewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 It's just like the film in Holland that got the guy killed, or the Danish cartoons...the Islamic fanatics are pathetic, paranoid and childlike in their collective tantrums. They are, like all religious zealots, a subspecies of human being, and as such, deserve subspecies status amongst the secular peoples of the world. Ship them all off to Antarctica and let them tear each other to pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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