Houllier - released from contract with FFF

[Maradona10]

Was he not backed before? We had a squad he purchases but never played, i was a big MON supporter but he truly left us in the shit!

[markavfc40]

Was he not backed before? We had a squad he purchases but never played, i was a big MON supporter but he truly left us in the shit!

He was backed yes. He also achieved plenty with that backing. The new manager as inherited a squad of players that had our best season in many a year last season.

We no longer have Milner but the likes of Albrighton, Clark, Delfouneso and Delph when fit, are all a year further along. Lets see if Houllier can do as well as the previous manager. Given his starting base if he is better than the previous manager, as many seem to be stating, then top 6 should be the least of our ambitions. I am though not convinced.

[Maradona10]

Yes I agree we are better that what MON started but you would expect that with the investment, I'd say Houllier has a better squad at VP than what he had at Liverpool when he arrived there.

[Risso]

Yes I agree we are better that what MON started but you would expect that with the investment, I'd say Houllier has a better squad at VP than what he had at Liverpool when he arrived there.

Maybe it's more consistent, but there's nobody with the extra special bit of quality now that he had then, like Owen, and to a slightly lesser extent, Fowler and McManaman. He also had youngsters like Gerrard and Carragher coming through.

[Maradona10]

That's what I meant more consistent!

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

But, who would YOU have liked us to go for? (obviously discounting the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Hiddink etc).

I haven't got a clue.

I lent towards Jol but knew it was unlikely given - Ajax's CL qualification, Ajax's giving into his demands re. players, and the sheer cost of his contract (circa £8m).

I'm not sure what that matters though. Because I couldn't think of anyone I would have liked, which says more about quite how much I know of managers on the continent/the lack of thought of I've given it, means I have to like having Houllier? Not sure that follows.

Look, I said when we had him, he was the best of the bad bunch we seemed to have placed as front runners. I don't think that necessarily means he's also the best we could have gotten, regardless of me personally being unable to name all the managers in the world that were attainable and better.

Chindie, I didn't say you have to like having Houllier. What I would like to know is how do you know he's not the best we could have gotten when you can't even name one or two names who, and this would be in your opinion of course, are attainable and better.

Jol was your choice, but as we all know, we had no chance of getting him. That's probably the same for any other manager whose team qualified for this year's CL.

I think that we're currently in a tricky situation i.e. we're not there yet to attract the real top quality managers, but we need to ensure we're attracting managers with some sort of pedigree and a CV which can display a reasonable element of recent and/or past success. (Houllier, for example)

[Mantis]

Yes I agree we are better that what MON started but you would expect that with the investment, I'd say Houllier has a better squad at VP than what he had at Liverpool when he arrived there.

Maybe it's more consistent, but there's nobody with the extra special bit of quality now that he had then, like Owen, and to a slightly lesser extent, Fowler and McManaman. He also had youngsters like Gerrard and Carragher coming through.

Well we have Young who is definitely a quality player, with the likes of Albrighton and to a lesser extent Clark, Bannan and Delfouneso coming through.

[Chindie]

You say Houllier's not the best we could have gotten and yet you don't know anybody that was both attainable and better than Houllier?

Yes.

[Risso]

Yes I agree we are better that what MON started but you would expect that with the investment, I'd say Houllier has a better squad at VP than what he had at Liverpool when he arrived there.

Maybe it's more consistent, but there's nobody with the extra special bit of quality now that he had then, like Owen, and to a slightly lesser extent, Fowler and McManaman. He also had youngsters like Gerrard and Carragher coming through.

Well we have Young who is definitely a quality player, with the likes of Albrighton and to a lesser extent Clark, Bannan and Delfouneso coming through.

None of those are remotely in the class of the Liverpool players I mentioned.

[DiegoD]

Our current situation reminds me of Spurs just when Candle Face came in. We have a decent squad with some good players and some useful players coming through. Much like Spurs we need a good strong defensive/ ball winning midfielder and an improved strikeforce.

A couple of decent signings in january and moving on a couple of players in summer and i really think we can crack 4th place.

[TrentVilla]

Yes I agree we are better that what MON started but you would expect that with the investment, I'd say Houllier has a better squad at VP than what he had at Liverpool when he arrived there.

Maybe it's more consistent, but there's nobody with the extra special bit of quality now that he had then, like Owen, and to a slightly lesser extent, Fowler and McManaman. He also had youngsters like Gerrard and Carragher coming through.

Well we have Young who is definitely a quality player, with the likes of Albrighton and to a lesser extent Clark, Bannan and Delfouneso coming through.

None of those are remotely in the class of the Liverpool players I mentioned.

In fact not even close to being in the same class.

[Richard]

Was he not backed before? We had a squad he purchases but never played, i was a big MON supporter but he truly left us in the shit!

Yes he was backed. He was given funding to build a squad from 16th to consistent top 6. The money he was given was nevernsufficient to buy a squad for top for, but it was sufficient to buy a squad for top 6, with the right management.

[Richard]

Hang on, Houllier is far from the cheap option. :?

Seems to be as if some people just wanted to take a big risk instead of getting a proven manager.

Forgive me if I disagree that Houllier wasn't a cheap option - I think a desk job in the backroom of the FFF is probably cheaper than front of house somewhere else. Just a thought.

It seems to me as if you're wrong re. just wanting a big risk... I think it's more people wanted us to show some ambition in our hiring, rather than get someone who, imo at least, has a CV that flatters to deceive but is a safe choice, and one who already doesn't think a whole lot of us.

Still, I hope he succeeds.

If the club were cheap they would've got K Mac or Curbs.

Hiring Houllier is showing ambition! I really can't think of many other managers we could have realistically got that would've been more ambitious.

How much compensation did we pay for Houllier?

That BBC artilce started badly and when I got to "And yet Krulak, who revels in his image as a straight shooter in his dealings with Villa supporters as owner Randy Lerner's right-hand man" I just stopped reading it

[Richard]

Who else could we have got Chindie?

Well it isn't my job to hire the manger or know the state of all the managers in all the leagues in the world but I daresay we could have found someone from a league somewhere who is performing well and would be worth giving a go, who brings something new to the table.

Unfortunately we're so risk averse (and/or cheap) that we didn't so we've got Houllier.

Besides which my comment isn't entirely about Houllier, only partly. A lot of trouble of getting better in this league is, for want of a better way of putting it, everyone else we can't compete with.

Best start just enjoying the ride imo.

Top summary Chindie.

In addition the bit about who else, well I agree that just because you cannot name every manager in every country in Europe or elsewhere that would have come or you would want does not mean you cannot hold the views on Houllier that you do and that I share.

I still hope he is the most successful manager we have ever appointed

[Rob182]

Our current situation reminds me of Spurs just when Candle Face came in. We have a decent squad with some good players and some useful players coming through. Much like Spurs we need a good strong defensive/ ball winning midfielder and an improved strikeforce.

A couple of decent signings in january and moving on a couple of players in summer and i really think we can crack 4th place.

An optimistic summary that I'd like to second!

Though Spurs have some expensive players like Modric/ Pav/ Bentley, we have players who have improved and have made their value rise like Gab/ Ash/ Collins etc

I think we're slipping away from 4th at the moment but, like you said, with a few purchases we could be back in the race!

One of our main strengths, which Randy obviously wanted Houllier to work with, is our Youth players.

Delph, Gardner, Albrighton, Bannan, Delfouneso & Clark are all promising.

[MrWeedMcGrass]

Anti Houllier brigade are out before he has even started here. Cheap appointment my arse , he is a well respected and internationally acclaimed coach who , incidentally, was first choice for Wolfsburg before they appointed McLaren , after Houllier turned them down. Google it up.

He was interested in this job because it is Aston Villa , a club of pedigree. It is laughable how some think we have signed some football outcast who nobody wants instead of a good European coach who has had top Jobs with real big European clubs , you don't get em if you are shite.

The shite that has been spouted on Houllier... I am out of here , I must be living in a parallel world for the last 10 years to thin Houllier is really good , you know , to have managed clubs like Lyon and Liverpool(among top 10 clubs in Europe) and be a part of the UEFA technical team. Yet people come here and say he is useless and will take us backwards.. Really... :?

[ChrisNichollsToe]

Anti Houllier brigade are out before he has even started here. Cheap appointment my arse , he is a well respected and internationally acclaimed coach who , incidentally, was first choice for Wolfsburg before they appointed McLaren , after Houllier turned them down. Google it up.

He was interested in this job because it is Aston Villa , a club of pedigree. It is laughable how some think we have signed some football outcast who nobody wants instead of a good European coach who has had top Jobs with real big European clubs , you don't get em if you are shite.

The shite that has been spouted on Houllier... I am out of here , I must be living in a parallel world for the last 10 years to thin Houllier is really good , you know , to have managed clubs like Lyon and Liverpool(among top 10 clubs in Europe) and be a part of the UEFA technical team. Yet people come here and say he is useless and will take us backwards.. Really... :?

Your not the only one to think this.

Im fully behind him. His record speaks for itself, and he will want to prove a few things to a number of people. :winkold:

[Chindie]

Being Wolfsburg's first choice doesn't really mean a lot - Wolfsburg, despite being exponentially better over the last couple of seasons, aren't really that big of a team, at all. Houlliers turning them down means about as much to us as them hiring McCLaren does. In fact Wolfsburg going for him probably states that he's not the great catch he's made out to be, Wolfsburg were a bit stumped as to who to get IIRC.

Managing Lyon isn't that impressive. Lyon have had some absolute dross manage them over the years and still had that period of being absolutely dominant - Alain Perrin is one of their most successful managers, Paul Le Guen is too, both of which were **** shite in Britain. I really wouldn't quote success with Lyon as a boon for Houllier.

Similarly, his Liverpool tenure isn't that impressive. He achieved little with Liverpool that wasn't already par for the course for them in the League (bar 1 season where they finished second, their previous Prem high being a couple of thirds IIRC), he steadily kept them top 4 for most of his tenure, which isn't that difficult really considering the size and finances of Liverpool. His Cup wins aren't without critique either - they fluked the FA Cup final where Owen, at that time a genius, nicked it on his own after complete Arsenal domination. And their course to the final was beyond simple, the draw being very, very kind. The same can be said of the League Cup, where even the final was pathetically easy against Small Heath. Only the UEFA Cup draw saw any difficulty for him, playing the likes of Porto and Barca, but I'm unsure how difficult these teams were in 2001, besides which the competition was a very, very different beast to what it is today, 13 matches to the final (I think) compared to 19 for Fulham last season.

And being involved with UEFA technically... well, does that really mean much? It appears he gained the favour of the FFF following his early successes in France (again, with a big team, PSG) and has sort of hung around since. He's never been more than a technical director.

He's not a bad manager but I really would stop well short of thinking he's some kind of coup. All of his successes have come with massive clubs, which thusly means little to us with regards success, and he's been out of the managing lark for a while and, for a man who himself said he was hankering to come back to management, doesn't appear to have been beating off offers with a stick, shall we say.

I hope he's successful, but I really doubt he will be, he may get lucky in a cup I guess but he's not going to lead us to the CL or anything of the sort simply because, right now, we're Randy Lerner's Aston Villa and he doesn't have to clout to compete with Citeh or Tottenham. It would've taken a lot of luck to take us further anyway, along with careful smaller investment, with any manager, but it now looks decidedly like it's going to be reliant on luck alone, as the soundtrack to the club at the moment appears to be 'Ooooo, that's expensive, best not eh?'.

Regardless, I hope he's successful and I somewhat look forward to seeing what he does with us. But we need to stop making out he's some fantastic coup for us, because he isn't. We pinched the French technical director, eventually, a man who had some success with enormous sides that, imo at least, make his CV look better than it really is, and one who's been out of the managerial game for 6 years and left Liverpool as somewhat of a laughable figure.

[drat01]

Anti Houllier brigade are out before he has even started here. Cheap appointment my arse , he is a well respected and internationally acclaimed coach who , incidentally, was first choice for Wolfsburg before they appointed McLaren , after Houllier turned them down. Google it up.

He was interested in this job because it is Aston Villa , a club of pedigree. It is laughable how some think we have signed some football outcast who nobody wants instead of a good European coach who has had top Jobs with real big European clubs , you don't get em if you are shite.

The shite that has been spouted on Houllier... I am out of here , I must be living in a parallel world for the last 10 years to thin Houllier is really good , you know , to have managed clubs like Lyon and Liverpool(among top 10 clubs in Europe) and be a part of the UEFA technical team. Yet people come here and say he is useless and will take us backwards.. Really... :?

Your not the only one to think this.

Im fully behind him. His record speaks for itself, and he will want to prove a few things to a number of people. :winkold:

No you see some people on here have to keep their particular crusade marching along and to do that you cannot accept any good about people like GH, despite his excellent credentials.

Before he even got his French loafers under the desk this morning, arguments were being written to try and justify their own little small minded agenda's.

It's actually sad and a bit scary that people think like that but not surprising really.

All football managers (and players) are a gamble. Any gambler will tell you though that the best bets are those which are made based on studying of past form, judging the others in the race and how the horse is trained.

[ChrisNichollsToe]

So summing up Chindle, you reckon Houllier is a "lucky" manager? :wink: