Cannabis

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

Generally speaking, kidlewis is right.

In an ideal world, I'd make all drugs legal and regulated. But that ideal world would be one in which people are educated, sensible and have a sense of proportion.

Unfortunately that ideal world does not exist. Given the problems we already have with alcohol abuse, I can't see how making the other drugs more easily available could be anything other than catastrophic.

The current system is already catastrophic and a huge waste of time, money and lives.

Nothing that could happen could be worse than the current situation, people will buy it no matter what, that´s what only a very few people can grasp.

The choice is:

1. Wildwest (Now) Zero control.

2. Some control, education and reduced deaths and violence.

It's not that hard is it ?

[wiggyrichard]

Am i not right in saying that all drugs used in moderation are as good/bad as each other?

Alcohol - You get drunk, you go to sleep, you wake up with a hangover.

Cannabis - You get high, you get the munches, you go to sleep.

Cocaine - You get high, you chat shit, you party, you go to sleep, you get a come down.

Heroin - You get high, you relax, you go to sleep, you get a come down.

Now all of the above if abused in excess can kill you. Im not for one second saying that any illegal drug consumption is acceptable, but they are all as bad as each other potentially.

If every drink related death was reported like drug overdoses, there would be no comparison!

Would death by drinking be classed as a drug overdose?

[mjmooney]

Generally speaking, kidlewis is right.

In an ideal world, I'd make all drugs legal and regulated. But that ideal world would be one in which people are educated, sensible and have a sense of proportion.

Unfortunately that ideal world does not exist. Given the problems we already have with alcohol abuse, I can't see how making the other drugs more easily available could be anything other than catastrophic.

The current system is already catastrophic and a huge waste of time, money and lives.

Nothing that could happen could be worse than the current situation, people will buy it no matter what, that´s what only a very few people can grasp.

The choice is:

1. Wildwest (Now) Zero control.

2. Some control, education and reduced deaths and violence.

It's not that hard is it ?

I used to think that, but I'm no longer convinced.

I know you're mainly talking about cannabis (which is after all the thread subject), but I was talking about the full range of drugs, including heroin.

I'd love to agree about education, but it clearly isn't working with alcohol, as any trip to a city centre on a saturday night will demonstrate.

[kidlewis]

Generally speaking, kidlewis is right.

In an ideal world, I'd make all drugs legal and regulated. But that ideal world would be one in which people are educated, sensible and have a sense of proportion.

Unfortunately that ideal world does not exist. Given the problems we already have with alcohol abuse, I can't see how making the other drugs more easily available could be anything other than catastrophic.

over time the culture would change, you only need to look at the Netherlands to see that.

if California legalise Marajuana expect every tom dick and harry to start smoking it, but also the thousands upon thousands of people doing it any way coming out and admitting they do it or smoking it on the golden beaches etc.

[MrWeedMcGrass]

You COULD kill yourself with one single drinking session, but it would be difficult.

Or you could 10(including yourself , at the end) :winkold:

Beauty of alcohol.

[TheDon]

Am i not right in saying that all drugs used in moderation are as good/bad as each other?

No, you're not.

They all have varying degrees of addiction so "moderation" just simply doesn't exist. I'd question if anyone could ever be a recreational heroin user, it's a drug that develops dependency very very quickly.

Is a far better chart for the risks of use.

The one in the BBC article is general risk to the population as a whole, which is entirely inappropriate as not all drugs are used by the same number of people. It should be averaged down to a per user effect, which would then see vastly different results (more in line with the above chart).

[Chindie]

Yeah I wouldn't equate heroin with cannabis or alcohol use, the stuff is so addictive that moderation isn't something that exists. It's comedowns don't help either, it becomes not only addictive but habitual as well, it becomes a way of life if you get sucked in and it's very difficult to escape.

On cannabis alone I've always had a couple of issues with it. Firstly it is, in my experience, the ultimate gateway drug. In itself it isn't that dangerous at all (more on that in my second issue ), but it represents the taboo breaker that gets a lot of people into the drugs scene. I've seen a number of people just in my wider group of friends that started on weed and soon go onto other things because the taboo has been bust for them and they've discovered new avenues in life that open up these substances to them and it ends up in somewhat of a vicious spiral. I've found it interesting to note that even a couple of people I knew to have very strong self control that have gone into weed and said they would stop there, and haven't, which was a complete reverse of character. I disapprove of it's use on that level alone.

The second issue that it does end up, in my experience, defining a number of people that go on it and I find that a bit sad. They go from rounded interesting people to people who do nothing other than talk about how great weed is and evangelising on it, and becoming desperate to have it enter every aspect of their lives. They also tend to wheel out the same hackneyed arguments and start using terms for non users like sheep which is just annoying as ****. Obviously this is a personal issue for myself but I do find the whole weed scene so **** dull.

[LondonLax]

Both of those issues are a direct result of the drug being illegal rather than anything to do with the drug itself.

[Chindie]

I don't think either are solely an issue with legality.

The gateway issue I think is largely down to the (for want of a better term...) 'opening of the mind' to the possibilities and that in turn leads a few people to go further and further down the rabbit hole. I don't doubt a number of the people I've known that have gone down that avenue wouldn't have had they not got into weed first, because they said to me much what I said there - they tried weed, wondered what the rest is like, and got into the scene that way.

And the evangelical boring stoned arse thing I think would exist if you could buy the stuff in Boots. People like to evangelise their life choices (we all do it).

[MrWeedMcGrass]

Yeah I wouldn't equate heroin with cannabis or alcohol use, the stuff is so addictive that moderation isn't something that exists. It's comedowns don't help either, it becomes not only addictive but habitual as well, it becomes a way of life if you get sucked in and it's very difficult to escape.

On cannabis alone I've always had a couple of issues with it. Firstly it is, in my experience, the ultimate gateway drug. In itself it isn't that dangerous at all (more on that in my second issue ), but it represents the taboo breaker that gets a lot of people into the drugs scene. I've seen a number of people just in my wider group of friends that started on weed and soon go onto other things because the taboo has been bust for them and they've discovered new avenues in life that open up these substances to them and it ends up in somewhat of a vicious spiral. I've found it interesting to note that even a couple of people I knew to have very strong self control that have gone into weed and said they would stop there, and haven't, which was a complete reverse of character. I disapprove of it's use on that level alone.

The second issue that it does end up, in my experience, defining a number of people that go on it and I find that a bit sad. They go from rounded interesting people to people who do nothing other than talk about how great weed is and evangelising on it, and becoming desperate to have it enter every aspect of their lives. They also tend to wheel out the same hackneyed arguments and start using terms for non users like sheep which is just annoying as ****. Obviously this is a personal issue for myself but I do find the whole weed scene so **** dull.

Spot on Chindie.

Opiates are the devil. Shaking off a Codeine addiction is hell by itself , the weakest opiate , forget about Heroin.

Its physical addiction , you become sick if you don't continue taking the shit. You end up suicidal and shit.

Same with Benzos , the withdrawals are the work of the devil.

Personally , as of now the only thing I would legalise is Cannabis, all things considered.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Here's the graph in a lot more depth.

[LondonLax]

I don't think either are solely an issue with legality.

The gateway issue I think is largely down to the (for want of a better term...) 'opening of the mind' to the possibilities and that in turn leads a few people to go further and further down the rabbit hole. I don't doubt a number of the people I've known that have gone down that avenue wouldn't have had they not got into weed first, because they said to me much what I said there - they tried weed, wondered what the rest is like, and got into the scene that way.

And the evangelical boring stoned arse thing I think would exist if you could buy the stuff in Boots. People like to evangelise their life choices (we all do it).

No, there is no gateway to other illegal drugs if the opening drug is itself legal, otherwise alcohol would be a gateway drug. Alcohol is more mind altering than cannabis.

Also, the novelty and counterculture element would disappear if it were legal much like it has amongst the Dutch community. There is no longer a need to talk about something once it has become part of the mundane.

[MrWeedMcGrass]

The 'gateway' drug idea is complete and utter bull and a blatant exercise in fear mongering. If you are going to be an addict , you are going to be an addict, legality be damned.

[mjmooney]

I would like to discourage cannabis use as it is mainly smoked, and I wouldn't want to reverse or slow the current (laudable) decline in tobacco smoking.

And the trouble with eating the stuff in cakes, etc. is that the effects are so damn long lasting!

[MrWeedMcGrass]

Long lasting is not necessarily a problem , is it? I mean you CAN get stoned for 8 hours on a Saturday if ya want to laze around and play a bit of Hitman Blood Money(My fav. game these days).

You have vapourisers which eliminate most of the harmful byproducts.

[Shillzz]

Villa fans seem to have a very keen liking for cannabis, I get a whif of it virtually every time I go to a game. Yesterday there were 2 groups of fans blatantly smoking it in Aston park before kick off and you can usually smell it outside the holte suite after a game. I find it quite funny personally, just the care free manner of these people brings a smile to me.

[Chindie]

No, there is no gateway to other illegal drugs if the opening drug is itself legal, otherwise alcohol would be a gateway drug. Alcohol is more mind altering than cannabis.

Also, the novelty and counterculture element would disappear if it were legal much like it has amongst the Dutch community. There is no longer a need to talk about something once it has become part of the mundane.

I disagree.

The 'gateway' drug idea is complete and utter bull and a blatant exercise in fear mongering. If you are going to be an addict , you are going to be an addict, legality be damned.

Yes, I'm rumbled, I have a hidden government agenda requiring me to spread fear of getting stoned.

I've seen it happen to my friends - it is a gateway drug. I struggle to believe I'll ever think otherwise.

[MrWeedMcGrass]

Villa fans seem to have a very keen liking for cannabis, I get a whif of it virtually every time I go to a game. Yesterday there were 2 groups of fans blatantly smoking it in Aston park before kick off and you can usually smell it outside the holte suite after a game. I find it quite funny personally, just the care free manner of these people brings a smile to me.

That just reaffirms the fact that Villa fans are the coolest in the world , doesn't it?

On that note , never heard a bad word being said about Villa fans in ANY football message board I've been on , with the exception of RAWK(who hate everybody with a passion, including themselves).

[mjmooney]

Long lasting is not necessarily a problem , is it? I mean you CAN get stoned for 8 hours on a Saturday if ya want to laze around and play a bit of Hitman Blood Money(My fav. game these days).

Most adults here drive cars every day.

[MrWeedMcGrass]

Yes, I'm rumbled, I have a hidden government agenda requiring me to spread fear of getting stoned.

I've seen it happen to my friends - it is a gateway drug. I struggle to believe I'll ever think otherwise.

You present anecdotal evidence my friend , I do the same , my own self. :winkold:

Why not turn it upside down? Is it not possible that people who are inclined to addiction turn towards Marijuana first , because of availability and relatively low cost rather than Marijuana making them look for other , more dangerous forbidden pleasures.