Cannabis

[leviramsey]

It's more about the drug trade and the crime which comes with it than the consumption though, isnt it?

Cannabis is probably the most compelling argument for legalization as most of it is grown locally under lamps these days isnt it? The chancellor might not like the fact that he cant tax the profits, but that's not something I have an issue with. Crime does exist because of drugs though, certainly harder drugs like charlie and smack, and it's with good reason they are illegal, even if the guy who likes a couple of lines on a Friday night after a hard week at work isnt hurting anybody.

The bulk of that crime is the result of its illegality: the illegality creates high profits (by limiting entry into that marketplace to those without a great amount of respect for the law) and in turn makes disputes unlikely to be taken to court.

The point was made by David Simon/Jay Landsman/John Munch that "we don't get a lot of street killings over a Marlboro Light". There aren't that many killings over heroin or cocaine either, in the sense of users of the drugs killing to get their hands on them or to get the money to buy them.

I work in the "legal" side of the industry (it's striking that CVS, Walgreens, Rite Aid, what have you, they will only open locations on corner lots except in fairly specific and limited circumstances). You get the occasional robbery for cash (even though it's by no means a cash business any more), more often an Omar-type character who pulls a gun on a pharmacy tech to get some Oxy ("hillbilly heroin"), but you don't have Greg Wasson, Tom Ryan, and John Standley going to war with bloodshed.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

All drugs are bad.

Is that programmed into you?

:winkold:

I'm just not stupid.

[The_Rev]

It's more about the drug trade and the crime which comes with it than the consumption though, isnt it?

Cannabis is probably the most compelling argument for legalization as most of it is grown locally under lamps these days isnt it? The chancellor might not like the fact that he cant tax the profits, but that's not something I have an issue with. Crime does exist because of drugs though, certainly harder drugs like charlie and smack, and it's with good reason they are illegal, even if the guy who likes a couple of lines on a Friday night after a hard week at work isnt hurting anybody.

The bulk of that crime is the result of its illegality: the illegality creates high profits (by limiting entry into that marketplace to those without a great amount of respect for the law) and in turn makes disputes unlikely to be taken to court.

The point was made by David Simon/Jay Landsman/John Munch that "we don't get a lot of street killings over a Marlboro Light". There aren't that many killings over heroin or cocaine either, in the sense of users of the drugs killing to get their hands on them or to get the money to buy them.

There are more burglaries and robbings over heroin than you would believe. I grew up on an estate where heroin use was rife, and trust me, some of the people I grew up with are right thieving bastards now. They will nick anything in order to score a fix. Drugs do create crime, even if its only seen as petty.

[leviramsey]

People burgle houses to buy TVs, stereos, etc....

[Brumerican]

There is a downside...

[kidlewis]

There is a downside...

Brasseye, awesome!

[MrDuck]

The bottom line for me is I resent anyone telling me what I can and can't do in the confines of my own home.

Particularl when talking about something that grows in the **** ground and has been on the planet longer than any of the morons telling me I can't smoke it.

The same goes for mushrooms.

I hate mushrooms telling me what I can and can't do as well.

[MrWeedMcGrass]

Pleasantly surprised by the general attitude of posters in this thread, I would've expected more of the moralizing drugs are evil crusade to pop in and have a go. Silent majority and all eh?

In an ideal world , I would be able to walk in to the friendly neighbourhood 'Recreational drugs pharmacy' , fill in a form , show proof of age , go to the shelves and pick the drug of my choice, make the payment and walk out , as I would do with any liquor vending 'off shop'.

I would need a drugs 'permit' issued by the regulating authorities after a detailed mental and physical examination (cost borne by me) to certify that I am mentally and physically well enough to partake the drugs without ending up killing myself or someone else. Criminal records, financial solvency and the works.

You would have very select no of licenses granted for these 'pharmacies' and people would be able to legally go in and buy what they want from these stores.

Of course there would be strict restrictions like only being allowed to consume the drugs at home, imposing severe punishments for violations. Only an 'X' amount could be purchased within 'Y' amount of time and not all drugs would be available. PCP and the likes should never be allowed , due to obvious reasons.

It will be just like a pharmacy , only more regulated.

I am pretty sure I won't be alive to see such a day if it EVER happens though. :cry: The fact that the govt can bloody arrest for stuf I GROW in my backyard for my OWN consumption and send me away for a long time for it says it all , really.

[Reality]

Never thought you'd be into drugs.

[MrDuck]

In an ideal world , I would be able to walk in to the friendly neighbourhood 'Recreational drugs pharmacy' , fill in a form , show proof of age , go to the shelves and pick the drug of my choice, make the payment and walk out , as I would do with any liquor vending 'off shop'.

Pfft, speak for yourself.

In my ideal world, I certainly don't have to pay for it.

[YLN]

Doesn't that sort of kill the point of legalising drugs?

I'd like to see drugs legalised, because I think people should be allowed to consume anything they like. If they choose not to be properly informed about the drug and they take too much of it, then great. One less idiot. If you can't handle the drugs, then you shouldn't be taking them. I can't handle drugs. I don't take them. People don't need to be babysat. The information is freely available about drugs. If you're unsure about whether or not you will be able to take drugs, you can voluntarily take a variety of tests similar to what you have suggested.

Your plan of regulation would mean that those who don't qualify from your series of tests will just continue to buy it illegally. It's the junkies who would not be deemed fit by the test who are the criminals' best customers. You do all those tests and then the purchaser just shares his drugs with his friends who don't need to go through the test.

If I wanted to buy any drug, I think I'd have a good chance of getting it in the space of 3 hours. Drugs are freely available, but illegal. The money goes to the criminals and it's all done cloak and dagger, when they could be legal and the money would go to private entrepreneurs and the government in tax.

I'm not seeing any justifiable reason why cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine and wanking are distinguished as being addictions that are alright.

[MrWeedMcGrass]

Doesn't that sort of kill the point of legalising drugs?

I'd like to see drugs legalised, because I think people should be allowed to consume anything they like. If they choose not to be properly informed about the drug and they take too much of it, then great. One less idiot. If you can't handle the drugs, then you shouldn't be taking them. I can't handle drugs. I don't take them. People don't need to be babysat. The information is freely available about drugs. If you're unsure about whether or not you will be able to take drugs, you can voluntarily take a variety of tests similar to what you have suggested.

Your plan of regulation would mean that those who don't qualify from your series of tests will just continue to buy it illegally. It's the junkies who would not be deemed fit by the test who are the criminals' best customers. You do all those tests and then the purchaser just shares his drugs with his friends who don't need to go through the test.

If I wanted to buy any drug, I think I'd have a good chance of getting it in the space of 3 hours. Drugs are freely available, but illegal. The money goes to the criminals and it's all done cloak and dagger, when they could be legal and the money would go to private entrepreneurs and the government in tax.

I'm not seeing any justifiable reason why cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine and wanking are distinguished as being addictions that are alright.

We would all love that to happen but unfortunately , it is not viable at all. You have to have some sort of regulation if you want society to accept drugs, without regulation , you would end up with all those fears that the anti drug mongers fervently sell coming true and beating the whole purpose of legalisation. Criminals , people who do not have the means to suppirt their habit financially , Seriously mentally ill, people with history of addiction and serious abuse, these are the kind of people that need to be regulated for NORMAL people to enjoy their snort of coke or a pill of scstacy or whatever without being stigmatized by the society.

There is regulation everywhere , you need to be a certain age and clear a driving test to be eligible for a drivers license, you need to undergo a background crime check if you want a passport/Visa , you need to be 18/16 to buy liquor , 18 to smoke , you get my point.

Don't you think it is highly irresponsible to to allow the free sale of drugs without ascertaining what kind of people are having access to it?

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

The one massive downside in legalising cannabis is that the number of crushing bores who's entire live revolves around the fact that they smoke dope and [ii] their uncontrollable urge to evangelise their love of dope will increase exponentially.

That said, the **** will probably never leave their homes save for a midnight run to the 24 hour garage for a tube of Pringles and some microwavable pizza.

A few points....

1. It is my view that it should be legal in the UK.

2. People die in the UK not from the drug but from gangs trying to control the production and distribution.

3. It's quite handy to keep it illegal though as this provides a nice excuse to keep the Police pouring money down the drain catching people, this applies to the law side of things as well. It's a nice earner for the legal community also, what better than defending person after person for a problem the country creates itself.

4. Is it really worth ruining someone's future job prospects (and overall income tax contributions) for this, it's pathetic.

5. It's as easy to buy it in the UK as it is in Holland so the gay war on drugs is going well then ? lol

6. If it is so bad then riddle me this, Holland is the best place to bring up children in Europe, every town has a coffee shop that sells it so how can that be.

7.

Still school holidays is it ?Sweeping generalisations and name calling all in one well thought out and really well structured post above, really tough and intelligent then ?Funny when people comment on things they know nothing about in threads, but feel the need. Yeah what a big waste, I wondered why there is never a single person on the roads in Holland and everyone is eating Pringles and Pizza, (Damm, it's like you have a window into everyone's living room and seem to know what we are all doing, very sick but very clever) that would be a waste of peoples time surely. Bit like spending hours each day praying to a god that has never existed and never will, now who's wasting their time. Whole continents are into that, billions but at least they leave the pizza and pringles alone, can't have to many false gods eh?

[soprano]

I don't pray to any god or take drugs but i do like Pringles and pizza.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

I don't pray to any god or take drugs but i do like Pringles and pizza.

Nah, not possible

[kidlewis]

rather than legalising and regulating it (which means for certain even with having to invest more in rehab and NHS the government would **** coin it in big time), the other route is to just completely leaglise cannabis for own grow and use.

basically grow as much as you like for your own use.

If you are caught selling it to anyone, then you go to jail for a long time.

basically means you either grow it and smoke it for yourself or you don't get any weed.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

rather than legalising and regulating it (which means for certain even with having to invest more in rehab and NHS the government would **** coin it in big time), the other route is to just completely leaglise cannabis for own grow and use.

basically grow as much as you like for your own use.

If you are caught selling it to anyone, then you go to jail for a long time.

basically means you either grow it and smoke it for yourself or you don't get any weed.

You can have 5 plants per household in Holland iirc, works well. I only grow 2 a year though as I am no Percy Thrower.

[kidlewis]

I wonder if between us we could work out how much potentially the government in the UK could get in taxation from this.

Plenty of secure army barracks not fully functioning any more that could be used to house and keep it secure. you could even use the military as part of the security detail as well and have them stationed there.

basic infastructure would be there to keep things secure and then growing it on a massive scale makes it cheaper.

the government could grow and sell it to various license shops and coffee outlets etc for about £15 an 8th I think. That would be to grow it and keep it secure, distribute it and to invest probably a good £10 of that into the government coffers.

then the shops can make about £5 per 8th when they sell it.

the question is how many regular smokers of cannabis are there in the UK and how much does the average smoker use in a year?

also there are many ways of smoking cannabis, water filters with bongs etc, or vapourisers which is probably the safest way for you to get the THC into your body. no smoke just goodness

BBC article from ages ago estimated around 2m people regularly smoked cannabis in the UK.

lets assume they smoked a mere 1 8th a month.

that's £180 per person (based on my figures of cost) each year

times that by 2m people. that is £3.6bn and I think that is being massively conservative on the usage and potential money for the government.

obviously there is the moral issue of using drugs to fund government, but I think a lot of people wouldn't be too bothered if it enabled people to have more money in their back pocket.

I'd guess the average regular smoker of cannabis would probably have 8th every 10 days not each month. I know some people who did quite a bit more than that.

[kidlewis]

also the biggest cost for growing cannabis is the lamps used to grow them indoors, however with greenhouses etc you could grow it without that. also the lamps are generally used to grow skunk which is very strong.

without lamps you don't get these super mongy cannabis strains but I think they wouldn't be suitable for general use anyway.

so the cost for growing cannabis could be very low.

it's also quite easy to grow with a bit of know how (I haven't grown it btw). But i remember reading an article on the beeb about some drug dealers who were caught growing cannabis in shrubery at the side of a road in the UK. Huge amount of it, as though they have just thrown a load of seeds in the hedge and just come back a few months later.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

also the biggest cost for growing cannabis is the lamps used to grow them indoors, however with greenhouses etc you could grow it without that. also the lamps are generally used to grow skunk which is very strong.

without lamps you don't get these super mongy cannabis strains but I think they wouldn't be suitable for general use anyway.

so the cost for growing cannabis could be very low.

it's also quite easy to grow with a bit of know how (I haven't grown it btw). But i remember reading an article on the beeb about some drug dealers who were caught growing cannabis in shrubery at the side of a road in the UK. Huge amount of it, as though they have just thrown a load of seeds in the hedge and just come back a few months later.

I just have them in pots in the back garden, water them and leave them to it. Easy it is, no need for lamps and all that jazz.