sir_gary_cahill Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, villa4europe said: that world cup where walker was part of a solid back 3 as we actually looked of defensively? and we used our defenders really well at set pieces? the 2 things we probably did best at the world cup? yeah of course Southgate knocked it on the head rice and mount went for a game of football, walker had a party with hookers, jack had a tear up and alli decided to be racist on social media - I think the difference now is southgate will come under media pressure to try jack and Maddison, you cant have jack making teams of the year and then southgate wafting his bullshit about being behind sterling and then calling up Hudson odoi The manager should pick the team off his own back with no input from the press but that’s not the way it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Just now, sir_gary_cahill said: The manager should pick the team off his own back with no input from the press but that’s not the way it is not in my lifetime and whereas when he started I liked southgate and what he was doing I now see him as no different to any of the others if jack played for man utd he'd be capped already 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: not in my lifetime and whereas when he started I liked southgate and what he was doing I now see him as no different to any of the others if jack played for man utd he'd be capped already No different to other international managers? Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: No different to other international managers? Why is that? picking names and also starting to look a bit unorganised, like there's no clear plan or identity to the team, they look like a collection of good players (at a push...) bundled together and sent out, usually vs poor opposition so they get away with it, i don't watch all of the games but from what I have watched I think we've regressed because he's dropped the areas where we did look well drilled (set pieces) and I still don't see anything to suggest we will beat a top team, I think he's way too stubborn with his midfield which is englands main weakness he might do something special in the month he has with them pre tournament but at the moment I think we're a team that will lean too heavily on a world class front 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, villa4europe said: picking names and also starting to look a bit unorganised, like there's no clear plan or identity to the team, they look like a collection of good players (at a push...) bundled together and sent out, usually vs poor opposition so they get away with it, i don't watch all of the games but from what I have watched I think we've regressed because he's dropped the areas where we did look well drilled (set pieces) and I still don't see anything to suggest we will beat a top team, I think he's way too stubborn with his midfield which is englands main weakness he might do something special in the month he has with them pre tournament but at the moment I think we're a team that will lean too heavily on a world class front 3 Southgate got us to the World Cup sem final in 2018, the last time anyone did that was 1990, he gets very little praise from the press or fans in general. If for example, Pochettino got England to the World Cup semi finals then big clubs galore would be in for him from all over the world but because Southgate isn’t an exotic or fashionable name then all of a sudden, he is exempt of acclaim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Southgate got us to the World Cup sem final in 2018, the last time anyone did that was 1990, he gets very little praise from the press or fans in general. If for example, Pochettino got England to the World Cup semi finals then big clubs galore would be in for him from all over the world but because Southgate isn’t an exotic or fashionable name then all of a sudden, he is exempt of acclaim Southgate got lucky in that tournament, he’s media friendly, no risk as far as the FA are concerned, but when England have come up against a decent team he’s come up short. He’s blandness personified, Mr Polyester. Edited April 8, 2020 by Robbie09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 59 minutes ago, Robbie09 said: Southgate got lucky in that tournament, he’s media friendly, no risk as far as the FA are concerned, but when England have come up against a decent team he’s come up short. He’s blandness personified, Mr Polyester. He might be bland but there is nothing wrong with that as long as it gets results which so far it has in major competitions, hopefully he can continue that in a few month’s time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Southgate is the most overrated manager in the world. He’s also the luckiest. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said: Southgate is the most overrated manager in the world. He’s also the luckiest. Why do you say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Southgate failed miserably at Boro and underachieved with the Under 21s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, Zatman said: Southgate failed miserably at Boro and underachieved with the Under 21s What do you think of his spell in charge of England? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 1 minute ago, sir_gary_cahill said: What do you think of his spell in charge of England? Average, beat the teams they should beat and didnt beat the better teams in the crunch games. Even in the World Cup England won 3 games out of 7 and Sweden was the only one I would consider a half decent opponent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, Zatman said: Average, beat the teams they should beat and didnt beat the better teams in the crunch games. Even in the World Cup England won 3 games out of 7 and Sweden was the only one I would consider a half decent opponent His teams have been great at set pieces thou from what I remember, or was that just his England side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, Zatman said: Average, beat the teams they should beat and didnt beat the better teams in the crunch games. Even in the World Cup England won 3 games out of 7 and Sweden was the only one I would consider a half decent opponent We beat Colombia on penalties in the last 16 too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: What do you think of his spell in charge of England? started well, tickled some bollocks and didn't over complicate things, made the players in to a group and happy to be there which sounds like something really easy and everyone should be able to do it but based on previous managers its obvious that its not*, would have been interesting to see him in charge of a better group, I liked what he did at the world cup, he overachieved, he set us up well, we were very well drilled at set pieces and intentionally or not we had a set piece routine that played in to the hands of VAR, we had a poor midfield full of workers but little talent and a system that therefore bypassed them and got it forward as quick as possible, sterling off the ball was absolutely incredible, I thought despite his goals kane was poor but with him we will always have a punchers chance its what's happened since that I think has gone from shit to really shit very quickly, he hasn't progressed at all, he has now tried to integrate a better midfield, he changed the defensive shape to try and fit rice and for me rice simply isn't good enough, when we are in possession along the back / keeper he doesn't show for the ball enough (and villa fans should understand that problem) and Henderson might not be a perfect fit as a DMC but on the ball as a pivot he's the best we have, ahead of him we should have a ball carrier and that's where he has badly let himself down by picking an array of players who aren't going to do anything, ignoring jack for now how the **** has Maddison not had a fair crack at it yet? madness, I expected him to go in to the Croatia game with a 3 of rice, Henderson and ox which I can understand (I rate Henderson and ox) but as a "home" game is maybe a bit negative and fits his get the ball forward fast mentality, that same 3 vs Czech republic and a playoff winner? **** that, he has to at least try and give us a midfield that is comfortable on the ball and can have good possession vs a good team, so who arguably is the best English midfielder on the ball? jack grealish.... southgate not picking him says to me he isn't going to change how we wants to play football and that means that he has a style of football that we know wont beat Belgium, wasn't good enough to win the nations league but next summer will somehow win the euros? not going to happen * I do think at the upper levels of football with world class millionaire footballers it does take different things in different dressing rooms, the idea for example that anyone could do what pep does thanks to the quality of players and money etc it takes a special mentality to reign them all in, could he do it at Grimsby? maybe, maybe not, OGS at utd is another example, his Cardiff record is meaningless in judging his utd tenure, complete different skill set required for that dressing room, for whatever reason southgate seemingly has that mentality or management style that clicked with those players whereas Capello for example, a far far better manager, just couldn't click Edited April 9, 2020 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, sne said: His teams have been great at set pieces thou from what I remember, or was that just his England side? not during the qualifiers, same as the defence, its what worked really well and for some reason its been dropped in his defense on the set pieces I think he can bring it back specifically for the tournament, you don't need clever routines that people can learn during the qualifiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, villa4europe said: not during the qualifiers, same as the defence, its what worked really well and for some reason its been dropped in his defense on the set pieces I think he can bring it back specifically for the tournament, you don't need clever routines that people can learn during the qualifiers Yeah, not watched much from the England qualifiers, just remember England excelling at it during the WC Edited April 9, 2020 by sne Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Why do you say that? Tournament is the most important thing in judging international manager (in my opinion). At the world cup, England have beaten Panama (great!), barely beaten Tunesia in extra time and lost to Belgium. They have then drawn to Columbia and won on the penalty lottery, beaten Sweden (the only good win of the tournament so fair play) and went to lost to Croatia and Belgium. Regardless of finishing 4th, that is not a good tournament. When you add to this the hesitance of playing young, prospective and energetic players such as Grealish or Mason or Maddison while playing people like Declan Rice or Jessie Lingard, you have to ask questions. England have the best funded football in the world, probably the best youth, but we play a boring, defensive team. That is why I think Southgate is not a good manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 9, 2020 Jack Grealish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Tournament is the most important thing in judging international manager (in my opinion). At the world cup, England have beaten Panama (great!), barely beaten Tunesia in extra time and lost to Belgium. They have then drawn to Columbia and won on the penalty lottery, beaten Sweden (the only good win of the tournament so fair play) and went to lost to Croatia and Belgium. Regardless of finishing 4th, that is not a good tournament. When you add to this the hesitance of playing young, prospective and energetic players such as Grealish or Mason or Maddison while playing people like Declan Rice or Jessie Lingard, you have to ask questions. England have the best funded football in the world, probably the best youth, but we play a boring, defensive team. That is why I think Southgate is not a good manager. You can only beat what’s put in front of you, I think we did very well to get to the semi finals of the World Cup 2018. The previous time we got that far as a nation in a World Cup was 1990. Yes, the football was boring (there’s nothing wrong with that) but it suited the players that we had at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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