SPECULATION : Milner to City/Utd/Chelsea/Spurs

[villabromsgrove]

because Valencia need money to balance the books.

We don't

have you seen how much debt we are in? I think the 25M+ from the sale of Milner would come in very handy at this point in time as it would probably mean no additional spending this summer other than the receipt of that fee.

You don't really believe this Richard do you. Why would a billionaire weaken his company just so he could put another spare £25 million in his already bursting bank account.

Milner is a valuable asset, and if we sell him our first team will be weaker unless the £25 million plus is very wisely reinvested in the team. If it's sat in RL's account it will just be gathering dust, while the real value of his Villa investment shrinks.

Villa do not have a debt problem, it's just the way a shrewd financier reduces his taxable liabilities.

[Qwpzxjor1]

Why would a billionaire weaken his company just so he could put another spare £25 million in his already bursting bank account.

I think you over-estimate how rich Randy Lerner is.

Yes, he's got a bob or two, but he's not rich enough for 25m to just be some loose change down the back of his sofa.

[HappyCatMe]

I think Mr Lerner is a very shrewd businessman. Such losses are set off against taxes, etc.

Villa are not indebted to banks or other organisations who could pull the rug from under us at a mere whim, but primarily owe RL the figures stated in the accounts. To him, it is a sustainable level of debt, and indeed, most commerce in the entire world moves on credit, as opposed to cold, hard cash.

I think the whole 'sell to buy' thing has been over-egged somewhat. This stemmed from RL's comments, which could have been interpreted in a number of ways. Alas, the media, an hence you lot here, decided to take the negative path.

Villa are a business and if another company wants to make an over-inflated bid to buy an asset, and you make a hefty profit on that, then you go for it, and re-invest in your business to take it higher and further. JM is not God and if you read many of the comments about him here, he's good but not even that great. If he goes (and he has not yet indicated he wants this!) then he will be replaced by one or more other players from that fee. It's not the end of the world. Players even leave the biggest clubs: how many good players left Arsenal, despite them offering CL football? Alonso left Liverpool, Ronaldo left United, blah, blah, blah...

LIfe evolves, and maybe he'll go, but he will be replaced and forgotten about in time by someone more worthy...

[choffer]

Why would a billionaire weaken his company just so he could put another spare £25 million in his already bursting bank account.

I think you over-estimate how rich Randy Lerner is.

Yes, he's got a bob or two, but he's not rich enough for 25m to just be some loose change down the back of his sofa.

I think the debt is a slight red-herring in the debate. Randy has enough money to do what's needed with the club. What is needed is for the club to stand on it's own two feet, without having a sugar-daddy and constant financial bail-outs. Randy et al have a long-term view for the club and that is ongoing sustainability. I would imagine he is looking at the current spending levels across the board and realises how unsustainable it is and will not jeopardise Villa for the sake of chasing glory. I think that in the not-too-distant-future, there will be a reigning-in of the sort of spending that Citeh and Chelsea have done in recent years and when that happens, a lot of clubs will struggle to survive as they will have overstretched themselves to the enth degree. This sort of thinking is already being planned for by the Premier League and the noises coming from FIFA and Uefa, indicate that this is the only direction football is heading. By being prudent now, Randy is setting us up as a real force for the future.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Milner but Randy is quite clear about how he is running the club, not as a sugar-daddy but as a supportive parent who helps when needed but is encouraging the club to work within it's means.

Actually, I do know what this means in terms of Milner. It means that we want to grow as a club but that when a gift-horse comes along, we cash in on it.

I'm not sure that any of what I typed actually adds anything to the debate though - the points I've raised have been raised many times already within this thread and those who are of the same mind as me will agree and those who aren't won't.

[villabromsgrove]

Why would a billionaire weaken his company just so he could put another spare £25 million in his already bursting bank account.

I think you over-estimate how rich Randy Lerner is.

Yes, he's got a bob or two, but he's not rich enough for 25m to just be some loose change down the back of his sofa.

If you're a billionaire on paper only that would be true ie. Glazers, Hicks and Gilette. Randy sold MBNA for big bucks at a time when he already owned Cleveland Browns, so his liquidity is excellent. As far as I know his only other reasonably large ongoing investment is AVFC through his investment vehicle RAL holdings. Unlike the aforementioned paper tigers Randy is not short of actual liquid funding.

By the way I wasn't implying that £25 million was loose change, just that it is far more useful to Randy right now if it is wisely invested in his club. Randy wants to turn AVFC into a successful self funding business as well as a passion, and that will take continual strong investment. Re-investing any fee gained by selling JM would be part of that self funding process.

[VillanWA]

Why would a billionaire weaken his company just so he could put another spare £25 million in his already bursting bank account.

I think you over-estimate how rich Randy Lerner is.

Yes, he's got a bob or two, but he's not rich enough for 25m to just be some loose change down the back of his sofa.

If you're a billionaire on paper only that would be true ie. Glazers, Hicks and Gilette. Randy sold MBNA for big bucks at a time when he already owned Cleveland Browns, so his liquidity is excellent. As far as I know his only other reasonably large ongoing investment is AVFC through his investment vehicle RAL holdings. Unlike the aforementioned paper tigers Randy is not short of actual liquid funding.

By the way I wasn't implying that £25 million was loose change, just that it is far more useful to Randy right now if it is wisely invested in his club. Randy wants to turn AVFC into a successful self funding business as well as a passion, and that will take continual strong investment. Re-investing any fee gained by selling JM would be part of that self funding process.

Don't begrudge Randy making a few quid on Milner. He is overrated, but if we struggle to keep any player who sticks his head up above average where does that leave us.

[Adam2003]

if we struggle to keep any player who sticks his head up above average where does that leave us.

No club can keep its best players all the time.

Could Man United keep Ronaldo?

My viewpoint on this remains the same: if Milner goes, we get very, very good money. If he stays, we keep a good player. I'll be happy either way.

[Woodytom]

This topic just goes round in circles

[VillanWA]

if we struggle to keep any player who sticks his head up above average where does that leave us.

No club can keep its best players all the time.

Could Man United keep Ronaldo?

My viewpoint on this remains the same: if Milner goes, we get very, very good money. If he stays, we keep a good player. I'll be happy either way.

But Manure got some mileage out of Ronaldo. We've had Milner 2 seasons.

[Adam2003]

if we struggle to keep any player who sticks his head up above average where does that leave us.

No club can keep its best players all the time.

Could Man United keep Ronaldo?

My viewpoint on this remains the same: if Milner goes, we get very, very good money. If he stays, we keep a good player. I'll be happy either way.

But Manure got some mileage out of Ronaldo. We've had Milner 2 seasons.

I don't see what differnece that makes tbh.

But even if so, Spurs had Berbatov (supposedly their best player) for two seasons. Sold him and improved, after previously selling Carrick, also supposedly their best player. Manchester United struggled after selling Ronaldo, but back when everyone thought Ruu van Nistelrooy was brilliant they sold him and improved loads. We sold Barry and improved.

I'm not saying we'll improve if we sell Milner, of course not. Just you never know what will happen and there's no point giving up because however good we get, even if we'd been champions three times running like United last summer, there will always be clubs rich enough to tempt our players away and/or offer us a price that tempts us into selling.

[Hanky]

This topic just goes round in circles

Until any form of concrete news, it will continue to do so.

[Denis_B]

Randy was a $ billionaire when he bought us, worth then about £750m. There is also the 'Lerner Trust' run by him and his family from whom he has taken loans out in the clubs name.

He is NOT a £ billionaire and never has been but if you take his spend at about £250m thats a third of his total wealth.

[VillanWA]

if we struggle to keep any player who sticks his head up above average where does that leave us.

No club can keep its best players all the time.

Could Man United keep Ronaldo?

My viewpoint on this remains the same: if Milner goes, we get very, very good money. If he stays, we keep a good player. I'll be happy either way.

But Manure got some mileage out of Ronaldo. We've had Milner 2 seasons.

even if we'd been champions three times running like United last summer, there will always be clubs rich enough to tempt our players away and/or offer us a price that tempts us into selling.

Fact is Im not worried about JM, and if we had been champions three times running I would probably trust the manager to know what he's doing if he decided to sell or buy certain players. Im just not confident in a manager who appears to be limited (my opinion) to the type of player he seems to go for. Sometimes I think you have to gamble a bit ie looking offshore, playing the youngsters a bit more, using the squad rotation a bit. Changing Heskey for Carew doesn't do it for me.

[Richard]

Randy was a $ billionaire when he bought us, worth then about £750m. There is also the 'Lerner Trust' run by him and his family from whom he has taken loans out in the clubs name.

He is NOT a £ billionaire and never has been but if you take his spend at about £250m thats a third of his total wealth.

In which case it would not be unreasonable to see that a £25M sale would be very nice indeed as it would mean no net spend from him and is a step to the club being "sel sufficient"

If you cant be self sufficient in earnings then do it from player sales

[CBGB]

I think Mr Lerner is a very shrewd businessman. Such losses are set off against taxes, etc.

Villa are not indebted to banks or other organisations who could pull the rug from under us at a mere whim, but primarily owe RL the figures stated in the accounts. To him, it is a sustainable level of debt, and indeed, most commerce in the entire world moves on credit, as opposed to cold, hard cash.

I think the whole 'sell to buy' thing has been over-egged somewhat. This stemmed from RL's comments, which could have been interpreted in a number of ways. Alas, the media, an hence you lot here, decided to take the negative path.

Villa are a business and if another company wants to make an over-inflated bid to buy an asset, and you make a hefty profit on that, then you go for it, and re-invest in your business to take it higher and further. JM is not God and if you read many of the comments about him here, he's good but not even that great. If he goes (and he has not yet indicated he wants this!) then he will be replaced by one or more other players from that fee. It's not the end of the world. Players even leave the biggest clubs: how many good players left Arsenal, despite them offering CL football? Alonso left Liverpool, Ronaldo left United, blah, blah, blah...

LIfe evolves, and maybe he'll go, but he will be replaced and forgotten about in time by someone more worthy...

Shame to let the most sensible comment in a while pass unnoticed.

[monkey]

Just got back from a stadium tour with work, not much gossip on players but as part of potential Milner deal, it's heavily rumoured that Barry has asked Mancini to come back to Villa, but MON doesn't want him. Barry still commutes from this area as his mrs won't move. All ifs buts and maybes, wonder if Milner will look at the list of midfielders Citeh are amassing and decide to stay where he can become integral and still fantastically paid...

Great and very interesting tour, love the fact Randy is steadily changing the Trinity stand from what he described as looking like a Walmart store, back to the showpiece it was. Highly recommend the tour for Villa fans or any football fan.

[Shillzz]

Dont care what may have transpired in the past, I would love Barry back at Villa. If City were to give us Ireland and Barry in exchange for Milner, i'd have a mighty chuckle.

[Mazrim]

Calculating Randy's worth isnt that simple. He owns the Browns which are worth something like £1bn amongst other assets, his own personal wealth is considered at something like £800m and then his trust fund, which he obviously has access to, is reportedly into the multiple billions.

That's not to say he has all this money and assets to liquidise and throw at Villa but he's a very wealthy man with more financial power than his personal wealth would suggest.

[cheltenham_villa]

Dont care what may have transpired in the past, I would love Barry back at Villa. If City were to give us Ireland and Barry in exchange for Milner, i'd have a mighty chuckle.

agreed, would also have Barry back though not to play alongside Petrov. He was one of the best for putting his foot on the ball and always looked to find Young with his first pass. Cant see MON not having him back after trying so hard to keep him.

[villabromsgrove]

Calculating Randy's worth isnt that simple. He owns the Browns which are worth something like £1bn amongst other assets, his own personal wealth is considered at something like £800m and then his trust fund, which he obviously has access to, is reportedly into the multiple billions.

That's not to say he has all this money and assets to liquidise and throw at Villa but he's a very wealthy man with more financial power than his personal wealth would suggest.

This is exactly what I have been trying to say in my own pedantic and less effective way.