Bulger Killer Returned To Jail [Poll Added]

[TheDon]

As for "but he reoffended" and? Lots of people reoffend, does that mean the justice system is completely wrong and unless we're 100% certain someone won't reoffend they should never be let out? It would be a pretty crappy system as the only way to be 100% sure is when the person is dead.

but at least 50% would be a start.

Ones reoffended, the other hasn't, there's your 50%

[kidlewis]

If Venables has done something minor then he should be in jail for something that fits that punishment.

If he has done something awful, he should remain in jail until he dies.

BOOM!

[wiggyrichard]

And I'm happy to admit that if it happened to my child I'd want to hunt down the killers and kill them myself.

But that doesn't make it right.

Im not saying its right, im just saying that IS what 99% of the population would want to do.

[Stevo985]

And I'm happy to admit that if it happened to my child I'd want to hunt down the killers and kill them myself.

But that doesn't make it right.

Im not saying its right, im just saying that IS what 99% of the population would want to do.

Well you certainly said earlier that you thought the parents should decide the fate of the killers. To me that is saying it's right.

[Condimentalist]

And I'm happy to admit that if it happened to my child I'd want to hunt down the killers and kill them myself.

But that doesn't make it right.

Im not saying its right, im just saying that IS what 99% of the population would want to do.

You are saying it's right, you specifically said that the parents should decide on the 'justice'. You want to live in a primitive civilisation with no proper judicial system at all. Don't backtrack, that's what you're arguing for.

[wiggyrichard]

You are dodging the question Snowy, so your telling me that if god forbid it was your child in question and someone offered you the chance to decide the punishment you would turn it down? Thats bullshit and you know it.

Heres the question again, what would you want as the punishment if it was your child that had been murdered?

No, I am not dodging the question and kindly don't tell me that what I have said I would or wouldn't do is bullshit.

Just because it isn't what you would do, doesn't mean that it isn't what someone else would do.

I think that is part of the problem with your opinion and your answers in this thread.

Most (if not all) of the people who have disagreed with you on this thread, I'd suggest, understand the idea of vengeance and, probably, are not too uncomfortable with people having those feelings. Where they have a problem is with allowing those feelings to dictate the level of punishment of offenders in a criminal justice system or thinking that it is fine for people to act upon those feelings and that these actions would constitute justice.

You, however, don't seem to be able to allow for the possibility that someone else's reaction to this might be different or for the possibility that, even if their feelings mirrored yours, they would be able and prepared to detach themselves from the situation.

I will add a rider to all of this: because we are only talking about future hypothetical situations, none of us know for certain how we would react, we can only give our position as we would think it now. As for that, this does allow for the possibility that were I ever to be in that situation, I might turn out to be a maniac hellbent upon revenge and for the possibility that were you, wiggyrichard, ever to be in that situation, you might decide on a different stance than the one you take now.

What I can say is that, dispassionately and objectively, if I were to be that vengeful person then I would consider myself to be in the wrong.

Still not a straight answer.

Yes im talking about a future hypothetical situation, and im saying what i would WANT as a punishment, what i would WANT as a parent of the victim in this hypothetical situation would be to see those 2 boys dead.

Please oh please just give me a straight answer as to what you as a parent would WANT as punishment.

[tonyh29]

Heres the question again, what would you want as the punishment if it was your child that had been murdered?

well thankfully it's not down to individuals to make these decisions ..

Yeah if someone harmed my child i'm gonna be mightily pissed , but would i take the law into my own hands and go off and kill the perpetrators ..almost certainly not , would i want the death penalty for them ? probably not ..... that doesn't mean I wouldn't be devastated but I don't have it in my to kill someone it's as simple as that ..and once you remove the bravado of a website nor would any of the rest of you either ..and that's why we have courts of law , they may not be flawless but it's far better than vigilantes running around the place

these kids were 10 when they committed the initial crime , I can't begin to work out how a 10 year old can commit a crime like that but a part of my would think they could be rehabilitated ... in this instance it seems one has and one hasn't .. If his new crime is serious then Venables should stay in prison for the rest of his life

[wiggyrichard]

And I'm happy to admit that if it happened to my child I'd want to hunt down the killers and kill them myself.

But that doesn't make it right.

Im not saying its right, im just saying that IS what 99% of the population would want to do.

You are saying it's right, you specifically said that the parents should decide on the 'justice'. You want to live in a primitive civilisation with no proper judicial system at all. Don't backtrack, that's what you're arguing for.

Im not backtracking, its not right what i beleive hence it will never happen, the parents will NEVER be able to decide the punishment, but i feel in extreme cases such as these they should.

[Stevo985]

And I'm happy to admit that if it happened to my child I'd want to hunt down the killers and kill them myself.

But that doesn't make it right.

Im not saying its right, im just saying that IS what 99% of the population would want to do.

You are saying it's right, you specifically said that the parents should decide on the 'justice'. You want to live in a primitive civilisation with no proper judicial system at all. Don't backtrack, that's what you're arguing for.

Im not backtracking, its not right what i beleive hence it will never happen, the parents will NEVER be able to decide the punishment, but i feel in extreme cases such as these they should.

So surely you are saying it's right in extreme cases?

That is what I was taking issue with.

[wiggyrichard]

Heres the question again, what would you want as the punishment if it was your child that had been murdered?

well thankfully it's not down to individuals to make these decisions ..

Yeah if someone harmed my child i'm gonna be mightily pissed , but would i take the law into my own hands and go off and kill the perpetrators ..almost certainly not , would i want the death penalty for them ? probably not ..... that doesn't mean I wouldn't be devastated but I don't have it in my to kill someone it's as simple as that ..and once you remove the bravado of a website nor would any of the rest of you either ..and that's why we have courts of law , they may not be flawless but it's far better than vigilantes running around the place

these kids were 10 when they committed the initial crime , I can't begin to work out how a 10 year old can commit a crime like that but a part of my would think they could be rehabilitated ... in this instance it seems one has and one hasn't .. If his new crime is serious then Venables should stay in prison for the rest of his life

If someone harmed your child, i think you would be a little more than pissed...

Your entitled to your opinion as much as im entitled to mine, and i would bet that your feelings would change if it was infact you in James Bulgers parents shoes.

I can honestly say that if anyone harmed my child i would not rest until they were dead.

[wiggyrichard]

And I'm happy to admit that if it happened to my child I'd want to hunt down the killers and kill them myself.

But that doesn't make it right.

Im not saying its right, im just saying that IS what 99% of the population would want to do.

You are saying it's right, you specifically said that the parents should decide on the 'justice'. You want to live in a primitive civilisation with no proper judicial system at all. Don't backtrack, that's what you're arguing for.

Im not backtracking, its not right what i beleive hence it will never happen, the parents will NEVER be able to decide the punishment, but i feel in extreme cases such as these they should.

So surely you are saying it's right in extreme cases?

That is what I was taking issue with.

Im saying that in extreme cases such as the one in question, then yes that is what i would like to see happen.

[mjmooney]

Heres the question again, what would you want as the punishment if it was your child that had been murdered?

well thankfully it's not down to individuals to make these decisions ..

Yeah if someone harmed my child i'm gonna be mightily pissed , but would i take the law into my own hands and go off and kill the perpetrators ..almost certainly not , would i want the death penalty for them ? probably not ..... that doesn't mean I wouldn't be devastated but I don't have it in my to kill someone it's as simple as that ..and once you remove the bravado of a website nor would any of the rest of you either ..and that's why we have courts of law , they may not be flawless but it's far better than vigilantes running around the place

these kids were 10 when they committed the initial crime , I can't begin to work out how a 10 year old can commit a crime like that but a part of my would think they could be rehabilitated ... in this instance it seems one has and one hasn't .. If his new crime is serious then Venables should stay in prison for the rest of his life

If someone harmed your child, i think you would be a little more than pissed...

Your entitled to your opinion as much as im entitled to mine, and i would bet that your feelings would change if it was infact you in James Bulgers parents shoes.

I can honestly say that if anyone harmed my child i would not rest until they were dead.

We've had this argument before. So I'll say what I said last time - what if you have more than one child? Would you be willing to go to jail for a long time, leaving your wife and other children to pick up the pieces, once you've had your revenge?

[mjmooney]

Heres the question again, what would you want as the punishment if it was your child that had been murdered?

well thankfully it's not down to individuals to make these decisions ..

Yeah if someone harmed my child i'm gonna be mightily pissed , but would i take the law into my own hands and go off and kill the perpetrators ..almost certainly not , would i want the death penalty for them ? probably not ..... that doesn't mean I wouldn't be devastated but I don't have it in my to kill someone it's as simple as that ..and once you remove the bravado of a website nor would any of the rest of you either ..and that's why we have courts of law , they may not be flawless but it's far better than vigilantes running around the place

these kids were 10 when they committed the initial crime , I can't begin to work out how a 10 year old can commit a crime like that but a part of my would think they could be rehabilitated ... in this instance it seems one has and one hasn't .. If his new crime is serious then Venables should stay in prison for the rest of his life

Bang on the money Tony.

The sad thing is that the chance of rehabilitation in our penal institutions is probably approaching zero.

[Chindie]

Apologies, I've been out since I last replied to this thread, and reading the rest of it is a horrorshow, but since I should be given chance to defend myself...

If you don't buy it, I think thats your problem and not the systems, because theres quite a lot of evidence for people from **** up backwards having **** up mentalities.

Well that makes at least 2 of us with the problem.

If there is eveidence that a "**** up background" gives someone "**** up Mentality" where does it say we have to tolerate it as that's what you're advocating Chindie.

I don't give a shit where someone's "**** Up Mentailty" comes from that fact they have it is in no way an excuse for anything they do and the sooner we get this back into our thinking the better our society will become

where does chindie state we have to tolerate it? :?

Ok lets call it "implying" or "Inferring" if that makes more sense to you Jon

I in no way infer we should tolerate this kind of thing, and to suggest I do is frankly insulting, learn to read.

[ender4]

what if you have more than one child? Would you be willing to go to jail for a long time, leaving your wife and other children to pick up the pieces, once you've had your revenge?

plan it well.

get your wife, children & assets out of the country first.

have a speedboat ready for your escape.

or hire someone to do the deed.

be abroad & untraceable when the event takes place.

but then you miss out on a fundamental part of the 'revenge'.

have i watched too many films :winkold:

[tonyh29]

what if you have more than one child? Would you be willing to go to jail for a long time, leaving your wife and other children to pick up the pieces, once you've had your revenge?

plan it well.

get your wife, children & assets out of the country first.

have a speedboat ready for your escape.

or hire someone to do the deed.

be abroad & untraceable when the event takes place.

but then you miss out on a fundamental part of the 'revenge'.

have i watched too many films :winkold:

you'd be best off wipping out entire generations of their family and killing their bloodline ..just in case anyone in their family has the same desire of revenge that you do :winkold:

[mjmooney]

[tonyh29]

Your entitled to your opinion as much as I'm entitled to mine, and i would bet that your feelings would change if it was infact you in James Bulgers parents shoes.

Well if I were in her shoes the chances are i wouldn't have left my son outside a busy butchers shop to start with but ignoring that , I cant say 100% for sure how i would react , but based on my life experience so far I'd be fairly certain i'm not going to suddenly turn into a killer ... it's one thing to post it on the internet , it's another thing to actually take a life and no disrespect to anyone , i fully understand the sentiment , but none of us are going go out and take a life ....

[Chindie]

I actually can't believe we've had 9 pages on the same tired rhetoric of 'what would you do if it was your kid?!'. It's completely irrelevant.

Has there actually been any justification for why Bulger's mother has absolutely any right to be involved in this yet either? Because as far as I'm concerned, she shouldn't be any more than any other member of public as far as this is concerned, but she seems hell bent on involved when it's none of her business.

[veloman]

Although I work in a YOI that contains some of the nastiest scum it is possible to encounter, I am no expert on criminal law (i am not a prison officer btw) However, If Venables has a 'life licence' I think that any transgression of that can lead him back to serve the rest of a 'life' sentence.

I wonder if I might comment on conditions in a YOI (the one where I work anyway).In an article referenced by snowychap, the author claimed that prisons in Scotland were harsh (or something like that). Where I work there a 3 categories:- Basic, Standard and Enhanced. prisoners can progress to Enhanced based on their behaviour. An Enhanced prisoner has his own TV in his cell and can have Playstation if he can afford it; also his own curtains and bits like that. There are no computers, thus no internet and no Sky tv, as is sometimes suggested in the press.

Personally, I reckon that the regime is too easy and suggest that many of them would spend all day watching tv and playing on a playstation if the were on the out ! Whether the above is suitable punishment for murderers and rapists I will leave you to decide.