villa4europe Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 risso you did this last week slated MON said words to the effect that with the money he's had alot of people could of done the same if not better, and i asked you then and you didnt and im asking again and so far you havent - name 1 manager in world football who right now would come to the villa and do a better job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Yes, both the Moyes and Curbs examples are good ones. Listening to some of the people who phone 606 with these sort of views, there seems to be some sort of arrogance that sets in for some people when their club climbs a little higher than they're used to; they want a trophy manager (not in the good sense), like some guys who make a few quid want a trophy wife. Every club has them, I suppose. On the other hand, Liverpool ditched Houliier and Benitez won them the Champions League in his first season, ditto Chelsea with Mourinho. I believe that Chelsea and Liverpool are bigger draws than us; therefore they could ‘upgrade’. I am not sure we can; MON at the present is as good as we can get. I don’t believe someone like Martin Jol (or Dick and Kok) would be an upgrade, rather a side ways move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrogers Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 name 1 manager in world football who right now would come to the villa and do a better job Do you have a list of managers that would or wouldn't come to Villa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 no which is why id like suggestions, just to see how far different our opinions are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claretnbluejersey Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 voted YES.. Of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted April 13, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted April 13, 2009 What a stupid question and a bloody stupid thread! totally agree. no one else would have done what he has for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrogers Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 no which is why id like suggestions, just to see how far different our opinions are It's very difficult to name, names, because you/we don't know the terms of any deal that may be forth coming, take Mourinho for instance, he probably wouldn't come to Villa if we offered him 500k a year and no transfer funds, however if we offered him 4 million a year and a substancial transfer fund he probably would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Yes, both the Moyes and Curbs examples are good ones. Listening to some of the people who phone 606 with these sort of views, there seems to be some sort of arrogance that sets in for some people when their club climbs a little higher than they're used to; they want a trophy manager (not in the good sense), like some guys who make a few quid want a trophy wife. Every club has them, I suppose. On the other hand, Liverpool ditched Houliier and Benitez won them the Champions League in his first season, ditto Chelsea with Mourinho.Firstly mourinho didn't win the chumps leage and secondly neither started from 16th - fair comparison - nah. Best man for the jon Best manager in the league with the resources at hand? He's overtaken moyles (so far) with a couple fewer years under his belt. MONs the man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killeen30 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 What is the reason behind this poll?! Of course yes! It really surprises me that some have voted anything other than yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan. Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I'm aware that Mourinho didn't win the CL, my point was that he had an immediate effect on their results after the previous manager was replaced. So did MON, what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Ever hope for? little dramatic isn't it, and not what anyone has said. At the time what would you have hoped for? He's done a brilliant job and saying words to the effect of so what, others could have do just as good shows alot about your views. An yet...there you are on another thread slagging off Curtis Davies and Milner, our two most expensive players that cost a total of £22m between them, and yet you say one of them "has looked very average and at times the pub player he compared himself to on his debut" and the other is "painfully slow and very rarely beats his man, some shocking touches also. I'm not sure if he'll get any better either, his biggest weakness is his pace and it's not as if he will get any faster" So if our manager signs two players who you clearly think aren't very good, surly it's not beyond the realms of possibility that another manager would have spent £22m more wisely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I'm aware that Mourinho didn't win the CL, my point was that he had an immediate effect on their results after the previous manager was replaced. So did MON, what's your point? My point is....quite obvious to anybody with half a brain. why? with the squad mourinho inherited he should have won something, not to mention the money he was given for further investment, alot of managers could of done the same IMO ranieri would have won the league that year with taht squad (cech and i think robben were signed by CR ready for that season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 why? with the squad mourinho inherited he should have won something, not to mention the money he was given for further investment, alot of managers could of done the same The argument was that we should look at the case of Curbishley as a reason for not changing managers. I just gave the opposite view that sometimes it has an opposing effect. As for "the money he was given for further investment, alot of managers could of done the same" isn't that what most people are saying we're not allowed to say about O'Neill? Didn't we spend more than just about any other team in Europe this summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 why? with the squad mourinho inherited he should have won something, not to mention the money he was given for further investment, alot of managers could of done the same The argument was that we should look at the case of Curbishley as a reason for not changing managers. I just gave the opposite view that sometimes it has an opposing effect. As for "the money he was given for further investment, alot of managers could of done the same" isn't that what most people are saying we're not allowed to say about O'Neill? Didn't we spend more than just about any other team in Europe this summer? hughes spent more, and on IMO far better players, plus the money we spent was mainly due to the thread bare squad MON was given and i disagree that a viable other could have done what he's done, DOL for one wouldnt have had a clue how to do what MONs done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan. Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Ever hope for? little dramatic isn't it, and not what anyone has said. At the time what would you have hoped for? He's done a brilliant job and saying words to the effect of so what, others could have do just as good shows alot about your views. An yet...there you are on another thread slagging off Curtis Davies and Milner, our two most expensive players that cost a total of £22m between them, and yet you say one of them "has looked very average and at times the pub player he compared himself to on his debut" and the other is "painfully slow and very rarely beats his man, some shocking touches also. I'm not sure if he'll get any better either, his biggest weakness is his pace and it's not as if he will get any faster" So if our manager signs two players who you clearly think aren't very good, surly it's not beyond the realms of possibility that another manager would have spent £22m more wisely? There's a whole range of other qualities a manager should have other than dealings in the transfer market, anyone with half a brain knows that? or maybe not... He's not been 100% perfect with everything he's done but can you name me a manager that has? they are humans afterall. He's done a brilliant job here, and considering he is still in the process of building his squad (that was relegation potential when he took over) and has us challenging the top 4 in only three years, I find it hard how anyone can complain. The two players you chose to quote me on, Davies I think will be a very good CB in the future, which if you didn't cut the quote said, "we're paying the price for having to develop talent, the top 4 don't have to do this". Milner I think has been average, but has the qualities to be a very good CM, time will tell what happens with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 The top 4 don't develop talent, are you sure? How old were Fabregas, Rooney and Ronaldo when they signed for Arsenal and Man U? Curtis Davies is also 24, and has played in the top 2 divsions for the last four years. He's not exactly some raw teenager like Macheda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan. Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 The top 4 don't develop talent, are you sure? How old were Fabregas, Rooney and Ronaldo when they signed for Arsenal and Man U? Curtis Davies is also 24, and has played in the top 2 divsions for the last four years. He's not exactly some raw teenager like Macheda. I never said they don't develop talent, I said they don't have to rely on developing talent like we do. At £26 mill, Rooney was hardly raw talent anyway. Wenger does like to nurture talent but can also sign the likes of Arshavin to get him out the shit. Another small factor you may want to consider is Wenger has had almost 10 years to MONs 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 totally and glad to see most people agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I think he has done some good things but still think he has a lot to prove, but I would give him another couple of seasons before making a final judgement as changing managers every 2 or 3 years rarely works. At present I would class MON as a good manager, but still a long way from being a great manager....hopefully one day he will be. ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I voted yes. I haven't been posting much in the main section lately, but from the little I've posted I guess my vote won't surprise many. I'm a firm believer in MON and his team. That's not to say I necessarily have the same philosophy as the man on absolutely everything. From tactics to the transfer window there are several (alebeit relatively minor) differences between MON and myself. There are probably one or two things I would've done different if I were in charge, though I won't go into detail about them as it really is quite boring and academic. I choose not to write post after post in criticism of our manager when things go wrong though, even if there have been things to disagree with. Instead, I try to defend his decessions trying to look at it from his point of view. I defend him, even if I may deep down disagree with him. The reason I do this is because, as I said, I firmly believe in the man. He's proven himself worthy of my trust both at his previous clubs and with us. Just look at how far we've come and some of the football we've played. He is simply a very good manager who's done brilliantly for us. What's the point in criticising things that really are of mere academic interest? It's not as if an of us would know any better either. I appreciate there will always be room a healthy debate, and I'm sure MON would be the first to welcome constructive criticism. But I just don't see the use in going on and on about his faults and weaknesses when overall he's done remarkably well. I choose to support him through thick and thin and I want him to be our manager for many years. I firmly believe he'll succeed in doing what he' trying to do - bring Villa back amongst the very, very best. Don't sweat the small stuff - they don't matter in the end. Get behind the fella and appreciate what a good job he's really doing. We're lucky to have him. Furthermore, I really like him as a person. His quirky, intelligent, passionate person makes me (even) proud(er) to be a Villa fan. He's the kind of guy you'd want to work for and he's the kind of guy who could make me run through a brick wall. He make me confident and assured about the Villa. Of course I'll defend him. Of course I want him as our manager. I wouldn't trade him for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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