duke313 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 11 minutes ago, LondonLax said: That 2010-present haul is still bloody good by any measure. More league titles than our own highly regarded manager for starters. Looks at the clubs Mourinho has managed in that period, and then look at Unai's (PSG aside), not really a fair comparison, is it? Mourinho win % has been decreasing with every job he's taken; he leaves Roma with the lowest win % of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 4 hours ago, HKP90 said: Was appointed, got Roma their first trophy in 11 years in his first season, spent almost nothing in the following years due to FFP (loans and frees), then got to Europa League Final, maintaining a 50% win rate in all competitions and top 6 league finishes. Sacked halfway through the season 9th in the league, and still in Europa League. Football has gone bonkers. There's more to it than that. Mourinho wanted a new contract and the owners obviously didn't want to give it to him as he has a limited shelf life as your manager. Easier to just fire him now and avoid the fallout of a toxic Jose who can fire with both barrels as he would know he's leaving in the summer. Edited January 16 by villa89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted January 16 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, villa89 said: There's more to it than that. Mourinho wanted a new contract and the owners obviously didn't want to give it to him as he has a limited shelf life as your manager. Easier to just fire him now and avoid the fallout of a toxic Jose who can fire with both barrels as he would know he's leaving in the summer. Fair enough, I didn't realise that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 6 hours ago, picicata said: Just imagine that sack of shit turning up and getting the team playing the most boring, moribund football known to man. I would actually feel sorry for the Newcastle fans Similar to when Daglish replaced Keegan and bizarrely started buying really old players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 4 hours ago, Avfc96 said: I've said before in the Liverpool thread that I think Klopp has underachieved in regards to his trophy count at Liverpool. But Mourinho has now been fired from his last five jobs, two of which are the biggest in world football. He was brilliant in his heyday of 2003-2010, but he never evolved. No he hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) Early Jose (Porto, Chelsea 1st time) was brilliant. A breath of fresh air. Arrogant, but could back it up. He's a bit of a parody of himself these days. Edited January 16 by Xela 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said: Similar to when Daglish replaced Keegan and bizarrely started buying really old players! Rush and Pearce! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 He isn't a very good league manager anymore. His first season at Man. United was 6th (and let's remember he was sacked at Chelsea with them well in the bottom half). Then when he was sacked in December 2018 he had them in 7-8th so pretty much identical to Ten Hag. At Spurs he took over mid season and only got them up to 6th. And again sacked when they were about 7th-8th with a month of the season left. And repeated those positions at Roma. They're hardly a minnow who have little chance of getting CL. Where he's still effective is cup competitions given Roma reached two euro finals under him. I'm amazed he hasn't taken a national team role yet, thought he'd have walked out on Roma to take over Portugal before Martinez got it so suspect he'll hold on over the summer to see if Portugal flop at the euros and that might be a vacancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 11 hours ago, Mic09 said: Not sure he has - from managing Chelsea the 2nd time (2015?), he has dropped down a level and found his place. He won a European competition (with man u and Roma) and successfully managed spurs before getting sacked a week before a league cup final. he's done ok for himself. Successfully managing Spurs is a bit generous, this was their position after his last league game: Everton 2-2 Tottenham: Harry Kane scores twice to cancel out Gylfi Sigurdsson's two goals - BBC Sport He left them 1 point clear of 8th and they eventually finished 7th. Of course he should've got the league cup final but that was a very light run, they only had to play Stoke and Brentford in QFs and SFs so our run in 2020 was harder than that having to take out a pretty good Leicester team over two legs. They also flopped badly going out to Dinamo Zagreb in the europa league a month before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 11 hours ago, duke313 said: Nobody is saying he's not been successful, just that his football is a bit shit now and he's not as good as he used to be. He's declined just as Wenger did from around 2010 (league seasons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Wonder if Newcastle would take a punt should they decide to dismiss Howe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 6 hours ago, LondonLax said: That 2010-present haul is still bloody good by any measure. More league titles than our own highly regarded manager for starters. Emery was supposed to win the league at Villareal?! Give Mourinho that Arsenal squad and they'd have probably been bottom half the first season. TBF I don't think anyone is saying Roma should've been challenging to win the scudetto when you have revitalised Juve and Milan clubs. But 9th and below Bologna and Fiorentina? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 It's a shame he hasn't been able to change and catch up with the times. Ancelotti started around the same time and has been able to stay effective without becoming a Pep-clone. He's still a good tournament manager and I think a NT job would be good for him. He's looked burnt out on the sideline these days and his style and passion can get a tune out of a national team for a few matches in a row. But in the league - he lacks the elite players to really make his system worth it. You look at that 2006 lineup that defeated United to clinch the title. Cech / Ferreira, Carvalho, Terry, Gallas, Makelele / Joe Cole, Essien, Lampard, Robbin / Drogba That's a defense no one is getting past and can torture you on set pieces and corners. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 25 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Emery was supposed to win the league at Villareal?! Give Mourinho that Arsenal squad and they'd have probably been bottom half the first season. TBF I don't think anyone is saying Roma should've been challenging to win the scudetto when you have revitalised Juve and Milan clubs. But 9th and below Bologna and Fiorentina? I wasn’t trying to talk down our manager before you get all defensive (though Emery did manage to finish 2nd with a PSG side that had won the league the previous 4 years in a row ). I was just pointing out that the supposed period of poor results from Mourinho is still a trophy haul 99% of managers in the game could only dream of, even top managers like ours. Edited January 16 by LondonLax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 12 hours ago, picicata said: Just imagine that sack of shit turning up and getting the team playing the most boring, moribund football known to man. I would actually feel sorry for the Newcastle fans Only 3 teams in Serie A have scored more than Roma. Is scoring lots of goals considered boring now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 The people that say Jose hasn’t evolved, can they please confirm what that means specifically? What was it about the strategies, tactics and technology he used to use which he isn’t any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 18 minutes ago, Genie said: The people that say Jose hasn’t evolved, can they please confirm what that means specifically? What was it about the strategies, tactics and technology he used to use which he isn’t any more? Pace of the game, not all about having a striker as the focal point. Also players don't react to his sort of management style anymore, like niether could Ferguson do it in this era, egos of some players got to big. He could still probably do it though with half decent players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Genie said: The people that say Jose hasn’t evolved, can they please confirm what that means specifically? What was it about the strategies, tactics and technology he used to use which he isn’t any more? still makes his tea by boiling water in a whistle kettle. stuck in the past clearly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 hours ago, VillaChris said: He isn't a very good league manager anymore. His first season at Man. United was 6th (and let's remember he was sacked at Chelsea with them well in the bottom half). Then when he was sacked in December 2018 he had them in 7-8th so pretty much identical to Ten Hag. At Spurs he took over mid season and only got them up to 6th. And again sacked when they were about 7th-8th with a month of the season left. And repeated those positions at Roma. They're hardly a minnow who have little chance of getting CL. Where he's still effective is cup competitions given Roma reached two euro finals under him. I'm amazed he hasn't taken a national team role yet, thought he'd have walked out on Roma to take over Portugal before Martinez got it so suspect he'll hold on over the summer to see if Portugal flop at the euros and that might be a vacancy. He did finish 2nd with United and won a Europa League and FA Cup with them. Their squad was even worse than it is now. I think his United stint was a success, but it was clear then that he wasn't the same anymore. Became very clear at Spurs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 hours ago, Genie said: The people that say Jose hasn’t evolved, can they please confirm what that means specifically? What was it about the strategies, tactics and technology he used to use which he isn’t any more? When Jose came through in the early 2000s, the league was still very much the 442, in the channels and cross it, blah blah. He came in with his 433 or 4231 and dominated the midfield, controlling games and winning with absurd defensive stats. He could suddenly form a back 5 or 6 and game planned specific tendencies against opponents instead of, “Lads, it’s Spurs-ing” them. Took the league by storm. And then when everyone wanted to copy Barcelona and the Spain NT, he carved people apart with a direct style and elite players at Madrid. But since then, all other managers now do specific game plans and more importantly, Mourinho has never evolved from that defensive style of his. Goals win leagues and unless you have an absolute star cast of defenders like he did at Chelsea and Madrid, he doesn’t control games enough to produce consistent league results. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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