Popular Post Philosopher Posted December 1, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted December 1, 2023 Reality is if we are good enough the qualify for the champions league then we are far better placed to compete for the FA Cup next season, and puts us within striking distance of competing to win the league. The benefits of top 4 out weigh that of winning one of two lesser trophies. I prefer to be pragmatic here rather than romantic. My only caveat mentioned before is the tiny bit of me that is superstitious feels that the FA Cup curse needs to be broken. I follow Villa because they were my local club and I love football. The fleeting pleasure of winning a trophy is not why i follow Aston Villa. If it was I'd have been a Man U or Arsenal fan. What I do like (as well as the feeling of winning a trophy) is the feeling I get after we win a game. If we become a top 4 team we get alot more of that feeling. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Champions League for me but I've seen us win the lot other than the FA Cup so I'll have a different view to many others who've yet to see us win anything. CL accelerates our income to another level though. It keeps all the players here and content with progress and matches the ambition of all top players as the tournament to be involved in. It also allows us to get bigger quicker and get back among the big guns. Winning the ECL and the FA whilst both would be great, neither elevates us as the CL would commercially and I think you have to take the chance when it comes because it may not again for a while. Being in the CL could literally set us up for the next 5-10 years in all competitions as serious contenders with Unai at the helm. We all want trophies but I think overall club growth is more imperative at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 27 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Seems some people are annoyed or " confused " by the view, when it's plain logic, without sentiment. Sentiment doesn't keep your club afloat , keep your best players and help you get better. I wonder if Wigan and Portsmouth ( F A Cup Winners ) would still choose the Cup, and their current statuses over Champions League qualification. " Hey all our best players have left, we needed to meet FFP and we are now battling for mid table but hey... We had a great run and we have a trophy " Obviously you would ideally want all three, but if there is only ONE choice it's a no brainer. I get your reasoning but I would bet that Leicester fans are happier to have won the FA cup than they are with the memories of their failed CL runs. I suspect Leeds fans would tell you they would swap their CL runs for an FA Cup win. Qualifying for the CL guarantees a single run at the competition, nothing else. It doesn't guarantee long term success or even short term. Winning the FA Cup would be part of our history forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 it's just a blinking hypothetical with absolutely zero influence on what we will actually do. You seem inordinately concerned that the casual preference of something irrelevant will somehow transmit itself into the fortunes of the club's footballing results. Anything, you I or anyone else says or does has no affect whatsoever on how well we do under Unai. I can understand why people prefer CL, I can see that argument but it comes across, perhaps its just posting style, I dunno, as if you're genuinely really annoyed that people think differently to you, that not everyone is worshiping at the financial altar of champions league football. Like unless everyone subscribes to this hyper-"rational" argument, of what is technically the choice that leads to some idea of an "objective" best outcome, they are somehow almost traitors for not supporting it with the same level of ferocious engagement. It is just a game, or at least, it should be just a game, and it's been gradually ruined over time through an obsession with money, coupled with a fairly malignant whipping up of tribal sentiments so that fans are psychotically wound up with the fate of a business entity. I and pretty much everyone else at various points have been worked up far too much by this obsession to unhealthy degrees. The money, the politics and imbalances of power are all only aligning for the interests of a few very rich stakeholders. I don't give a damn whether we appeal to some rich feckers the other side of the world. If we do well I guess all that comes anyway, but putting that as the front and centre is a bit of a sad way of looking at it. I'd rather bin off following football entirely if that's the way we're supposed to engage with football according to "Logic". We're ( an idealistic notion I know ) an English football club playing in the English premier league. I like the cup competitions. Winning one of those competitions means something to me. Europe is fun, and exotic sure, but it's an add on, it has prestige, I'm delighted to have Rotterdam on our honours board and if anyone can do that for us it's Unai, but meh, if "all" we do over the next 5 years is win a couple of domestic cups I'll be delighted to have enjoyed those moments. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 It's a bit of a stupid question, as only the most shortsighted fan would take a cup over CL qualification. West Ham winning the Conference hasn't made much difference to their finances and hasn't helped them attract world class players. CL qualification allows that and gives more headroom for FFP. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 23 minutes ago, picicata said: I get your reasoning but I would bet that Leicester fans are happier to have won the FA cup than they are with the memories of their failed CL runs. I suspect Leeds fans would tell you they would swap their CL runs for an FA Cup win. Qualifying for the CL guarantees a single run at the competition, nothing else. It doesn't guarantee long term success or even short term. Winning the FA Cup would be part of our history forever. Neither of those club had a manager as good, or owners are wealthy as we have! Leicester had their best players gobbled up, and Leeds got themselves in massive debt. Leicesters title win was seen as a fluke (and it was), they didn't have the strength in depth to compete in the league and Europe plus had to do without the likes of Mahrez and Kante whom left for exceptional careers at City and Chelsea respectively. It underlines my point in the Doug thread about the importance of keeping your best players. With the owner and Manager we have champions league would reap huge rewards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Let's just get all three and make this poll moot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 The question asks which we'd prefer this season. I'd love us to win the FA Cup this season. I'd rather that than access to the Champions League cash cow just so we can win the FA Cup a year later All in due course. We're about three players short of Top 4 imho* and we'll be better able to push on next year. * We'll get an injury. The drop-off in quality in GK, RB, CM, and Ollie means we'll have a tough patch sometime between now and March. Imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Rodders said: You seem to be under the misunderstanding I wouldn't be happy with CL? I would. I'm just not obssessed with the bottom line, get as rich and as powerful as quickly as possible even if we win **** all in the process. Everything is transient, nothing lasts forever, even if we spent a few years in the CL, that'll go, teams wax and wane unless they're bankrolled by a state. And you find it mental to take a cup win? There's more to life than money, just for the spreadsheet afficianado's among you I’m sure there are plenty of Spurs fans, including Harry Kane who regularly have played in the CL would agree with you. Yes the game has changed/been ruined by the money and I’m not ignoring the importance of strong finances and being in a position to use the money, according to the rules, but that must surely be seen as a means to an end, which for most fans is winning trophies and enjoying the journey to the silverware!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 6 hours ago, DakotaVilla said: It’s a very poorly worded question. It should be: Would you rather win one trophy and then watch your best players and potentially even your manager leave for the biggest clubs in Europe and maybe wait another 15/20 years for a trophy or would you rather trade that for the opportunity to keep all of your players and manager with the ability to add even better players in the summer and hopefully then win numerous trophies over the next 5 years? And if you still select winning a cup you need to go and see a doctor. 1 hour ago, DakotaVilla said: One of the main reasons why the country is in such a mess is because we gave people the option of making a decision without articulating the true benefits and costs of those decisions. It’s not a loaded question. It’s a very clear articulation of the actual choice in front of you. Are you alright? You think what you wrote is a clear articulation of the certain future? If we finish top 4 we're guaranteed to keep hold of all our players and manager and also bring in better players and then win lots of trophies? If we win a cup instead it'll doom the club into a spiral? This is supposed to be a bit of fun, you don't need to suggest that people who want to win a cup this year are mentally unwell. People are allowed to think different things. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 48 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: Champions League for me but I've seen us win the lot other than the FA Cup so I'll have a different view to many others who've yet to see us win anything. CL accelerates our income to another level though. It keeps all the players here and content with progress and matches the ambition of all top players as the tournament to be involved in. It also allows us to get bigger quicker and get back among the big guns. Winning the ECL and the FA whilst both would be great, neither elevates us as the CL would commercially and I think you have to take the chance when it comes because it may not again for a while. Being in the CL could literally set us up for the next 5-10 years in all competitions as serious contenders with Unai at the helm. We all want trophies but I think overall club growth is more imperative at this point in time. Well I’ve lived long enough to see most of our journeys, I was chosen in the late 60s/early 70s so it’s fair to say I’ve laughed and cried along the way but I’ll never forget those days in May on the early 80s or in fact the various trips to Wembley. Ok mostly they were before Sky invented football in 1992 but I’d love a few repeats particularly to lift the FA Cup. I understand that the money of the CL makes these things more likely but memories of winning games and particularly finals live in our hearts and heads forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: Well I’ve lived long enough to see most of our journeys, I was chosen in the late 60s/early 70s so it’s fair to say I’ve laughed and cried along the way but I’ll never forget those days in May on the early 80s or in fact the various trips to Wembley. Ok mostly they were before Sky invented football in 1992 but I’d love a few repeats particularly to lift the FA Cup. I understand that the money of the CL makes these things more likely but memories of winning games and particularly finals live in our hearts and heads forever! PS. I stayed at the Wembley Hilton after the League Cup final against Man U and the fun I had winding up the ManU plastics will be with me forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 2 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said: What are people going to remember in 30 years, away trips against Atletico Madrid and Lazio, or John McGinn lifting the FA cup? John McGinn and Jacob Ramsey lifting the Champions League Trophy As Jack watches on from the Man City bench who we just defeated. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 minute ago, DaveAV1 said: PS. I stayed at the Wembley Hilton after the League Cup final against Man U and the fun I had winding up the ManU plastics will be with me forever. Man U plastic, “you must admit we’re the best team in the country.” Me, “Really,where’s your trophy then?” it went on like that for hours! You can’t put a price on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: Well I’ve lived long enough to see most of our journeys, I was chosen in the late 60s/early 70s so it’s fair to say I’ve laughed and cried along the way but I’ll never forget those days in May on the early 80s or in fact the various trips to Wembley. Ok mostly they were before Sky invented football in 1992 but I’d love a few repeats particularly to lift the FA Cup. I understand that the money of the CL makes these things more likely but memories of winning games and particularly finals live in our hearts and heads forever! I agree to a point. However, I think we'll win trophies over the next few years under Emery anyway, so for me I see it as don't look a gift horse in the mouth if opportunity knocks. If there is a chance to accelerate bringing in better players, spending more on wages, holding onto our best players for the next few years, the CL ensures this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 minute ago, avfc1982am said: I agree to a point. However, I think we'll win trophies over the next few years under Emery anyway, so for me I see it as don't look a gift horse in the mouth if opportunity knocks. If there is a chance to accelerate bringing in better players, spending more on wages, holding onto our best players for the next few years, the CL ensures this. I wouldn’t argue with that and I definitely think we can and possibly will get both in the next few years with the Sultan pulling the strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Rodders said: it's just a blinking hypothetical with absolutely zero influence on what we will actually do. You seem inordinately concerned that the casual preference of something irrelevant will somehow transmit itself into the fortunes of the club's footballing results. Anything, you I or anyone else says or does has no affect whatsoever on how well we do under Unai. I can understand why people prefer CL, I can see that argument but it comes across, perhaps its just posting style, I dunno, as if you're genuinely really annoyed that people think differently to you, that not everyone is worshiping at the financial altar of champions league football. Like unless everyone subscribes to this hyper-"rational" argument, of what is technically the choice that leads to some idea of an "objective" best outcome, they are somehow almost traitors for not supporting it with the same level of ferocious engagement. It is just a game, or at least, it should be just a game, and it's been gradually ruined over time through an obsession with money, coupled with a fairly malignant whipping up of tribal sentiments so that fans are psychotically wound up with the fate of a business entity. I and pretty much everyone else at various points have been worked up far too much by this obsession to unhealthy degrees. The money, the politics and imbalances of power are all only aligning for the interests of a few very rich stakeholders. I don't give a damn whether we appeal to some rich feckers the other side of the world. If we do well I guess all that comes anyway, but putting that as the front and centre is a bit of a sad way of looking at it. I'd rather bin off following football entirely if that's the way we're supposed to engage with football according to "Logic". We're ( an idealistic notion I know ) an English football club playing in the English premier league. I like the cup competitions. Winning one of those competitions means something to me. Europe is fun, and exotic sure, but it's an add on, it has prestige, I'm delighted to have Rotterdam on our honours board and if anyone can do that for us it's Unai, but meh, if "all" we do over the next 5 years is win a couple of domestic cups I'll be delighted to have enjoyed those moments. " How very dare you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 2 hours ago, DakotaVilla said: The owners and Emery are not here to bust their nut in desperation for a single cup. Reality is that we’re all emotionally scarred after so long without success but we have to dare to dream that there is a bigger prize out there. And the main reason is because I’m convinced that our manager wants to win it all and he won’t stop until he does. No-one here is saying that we want to win one thing AND THAT'S IT, NO MORE SUCCESS EVER PLEASE. The question was, given the choice, would you rather this season win the F.A. Cup, the Europa Conference or qualify for the Champions League if you could only do one of those things. It's not a prelude to the future of Aston Villa for **** sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Waring Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 I would take 3 points against Bournemouth right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted December 1, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted December 1, 2023 9 hours ago, Dillon66 said: Same for me.....seen us win everything else in my lifetime.....be nice to complete the set. same, can slip off this mortal coil a happy man 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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