Villa players and managers who don't seem so bad now ...

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, ender4 said:

Remi Garde. He didn’t stand a chance with the team, players and club we had at that point.  Who knows if he could have been a decent manager in the right set-up.

i actually think the opposite...at the time there was a lot sympathy felt towards him (seem to remember a song about him along the lines of "we would understand if you walked away from this mess" )

but in hindsight the guy was utterly useless

[tomav84]

i'm throwing tyrone into this discussion...some of the shit that's been written about him by his own fans both on here and social media has been dreadful but it seems that he's largely won most people over

[villa4europe]

3 hours ago, UpTheVilla26 said:

I'd say Gareth Barry. 

To me, he's a Villa legend. I remember watching his debut sub appearance v Sheffield Weds. He came on and just looked so comfortable with the ball. 

He gave us amazing service. Even the season when he'd made it clear he wanted to leave, he got on with it and was superb. Yet I still see people slag him off or have bitterness that he left. 

The NOTW article did it for me, why isn't MON sorting his contract says Gareth Barry from his holiday home in florida

Also thought that he visibly didn't enjoy the booing at VP and never performed on his return so I happily joined in even though I was never that angry over it

[The Fun Factory]

4 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Or inherited a team that finished 6th, destroyed anything good about them. Destroyed any fight or comeback spirit the club had. Broke our transfer record, was more interested in enjoying his day out at anfield and our best two performances came when he was nowhere near the training ground or pitch. 

9th place is the most false league position in our prem history IMO. It was a woeful season. 

And the last 2 wins v Arsenal and Liverpool was when Gary Mac was in charge and we fluked a 9th with less than 50 points.

Having said that though there were signs we were improving and adapting to Houllier's complete change of play from MON.

And then we replaced him with Mcleish. Houllier would have been a good dof for us imo.

Edited July 3, 2023 by The Fun Factory

[UpTheVilla26]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Dwight Yorke.

I loved Yorke, I had his name on my shirt and as a young teenager, I cried when he left, he was my first proper Villa hero. He was brilliant for us and you can't really argue with what he went on and done at Utd. 

Then Gregory came out saying he'd have shot him I really like John Gregory but I don't think them comments helped and deffo swayed my opinion of Dwight once he'd left. 

 

[mikeyp102]

2 hours ago, ender4 said:

Remi Garde. He didn’t stand a chance with the team, players and club we had at that point.  Who knows if he could have been a decent manager in the right set-up.

Can’t buy this he was nowhere near good enough, his record before coming here wasn’t great and after he’s done nothing 

[mikeyp102]

1 hour ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

Jordan Veretout. Maintain we totally ruined him from an intergration stand point. He never settled (from reports he was pretty much ignored) but he's proven he's a solid player after the stint with us.

I don’t think he was ever suited to the English league, no doubt about his technique but at the time his age he wasn’t physical or fit enough to cope with the demands.

[mikeyp102]

Ashley Young definitely the dive for Utd was horrendous and we shouted blue murder at him. But the way he came back and proved what a top top pro he is deserves credit.

[Dante_Lockhart]

Just now, mikeyp102 said:

I don’t think he was ever suited to the English league, no doubt about his technique but at the time his age he wasn’t physical or fit enough to cope with the demands.

I mean, he'd just had a kid, moved to a new country with a language barrier and was living out of a hotel, and from interviews I've read (from memory) the guys at Villa at the time didn't do anything to help him settle.

[villarule123]

Controversial.. Deadly Doug with the aftermath of Lerner/Dr. Tony episode in mind? 

[mikeyp102]

10 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

I mean, he'd just had a kid, moved to a new country with a language barrier and was living out of a hotel, and from interviews I've read (from memory) the guys at Villa at the time didn't do anything to help him settle.

Yeah, the club didn’t handle him well at all, still don’t think he was suited to the English game though.

[Mark Albrighton]

No one really stands out. I think the general consensus (with hindsight) is reasonable for most if not all.

Someone like Ashley Westwood my immediate feeling towards him now is that he was neither good nor bad enough to warrant either the staunch defence or criticism he had. Just someone who came up from League One, playing in a below mediocre PL team. There were worse offenders.

People like Yorke, Barry, Delph, Grealish. Nothing has changed has it? I think most people understand why they left. They just don’t have to like it. One of those in particular I suspect I wouldn’t like on a personal level, based on his occasional reappearance in the media. But I enjoyed what he did in a Villa shirt. 

For the sake of the thread, I kinda felt Shay Given had slightly too much criticism directed at him. I think it was mainly his wages/contract. Ok, but it wasn’t his fault we offered him what we did. I also thought he came across as a model pro, happy to step into a coaching role when required. 

But as may be gathered by my tone, I’m fairly indifferent on him too. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Mark Albrighton

[DeadlyDirk]

Controversy here....

Alex McLeish - at times he could only put out a midfield of Chris Herd and Ciaran Clark, he had an out of sorts N'Zgobia with Gabby and Heskey as our main strike partners for about half a season (Bent got a season ending injury if I remember right?) - had the tragedy that befell Stilyan Petrov midway through and our only real consistency was Collins and Dunne. In hindsight a side that should have got relegated, but he kept us up signing Grealish to a longterm deal, blooding in (out of necessity) Andi Weimann and somehow remained dignified throughout, knowing he was up against it from the off joining us from down the road..

[The Fun Factory]

30 minutes ago, DeadlyDirk said:

Controversy here....

Alex McLeish - at times he could only put out a midfield of Chris Herd and Ciaran Clark, he had an out of sorts N'Zgobia with Gabby and Heskey as our main strike partners for about half a season (Bent got a season ending injury if I remember right?) - had the tragedy that befell Stilyan Petrov midway through and our only real consistency was Collins and Dunne. In hindsight a side that should have got relegated, but he kept us up signing Grealish to a longterm deal, blooding in (out of necessity) Andi Weimann and somehow remained dignified throughout, knowing he was up against it from the off joining us from down the road..

It was incredibly defensive, dour football. Far too many draws. It was symbolic of Lerner giving up on Villa, that we had accepted mediocrity, and if you had any ambition don't come to us. Yes he was the fall guy but bar a few decent moments the season was dreadful.  As you said Weimann was a highlight, his winner versus Fulham basically kept us up. We had gone from a solid top 6 club to relegation fodder in 2 seasons.

Edited July 3, 2023 by The Fun Factory

[VillaChris]

Savo surely?

Of course back in mid 90s 3.5m was seen as 35m so was a big fee at the time but compared to so many other strikers we've signed since he really didn't do too badly.

12 prem goals in 95/96 plus that great goal in the final v Leeds.

10 in 96/97. Also set up a fair few for Yorke.

Only 7 prem goals in his final season but he was more of a rotation forward with Collymore and Joachim. Scored some big goals in the Uefa cup run v Bordeaux in extra time and Bucharest.

Of course the spitting stuff was regrettable and he was always going after that happened but he spoke fondly of us in an interview a few years ago when he was managing Partizan Belgrade v Man. United and I think he'd get a good reception if he was ever invited back to VP.

[VillaChris]

5 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Or inherited a team that finished 6th, destroyed anything good about them. Destroyed any fight or comeback spirit the club had. Broke our transfer record, was more interested in enjoying his day out at anfield and our best two performances came when he was nowhere near the training ground or pitch. 

9th place is the most false league position in our prem history IMO. It was a woeful season. 

Houllier to me was a bit like us signing Ginola and Pires. Very good manager in his heyday at Liverpool and Lyon but he'd been semi retired for a couple of years at French FA so it just felt like he was passed his best and of course the health issues were also lingering and eventually curtailed his season.

The logic was he was ideal to bring through the young players but it would've worked better with us sourcing a younger coach from europe and having Houllier as director of football.

9th was a very flattering finish. We were pretty much bottom 6 all season until we randomly beat Arsenal and Liverpool in final two games and even then we needed 3-4 results to go all for us on final day that got us top half.

[VillaChris]

48 minutes ago, villarule123 said:

Controversial.. Deadly Doug with the aftermath of Lerner/Dr. Tony episode in mind? 

80s weren't great when he returned obviously but we were generally very strong in the 90s. 2nd twice and 4th and quite a few 5th and 6th place finishes. Should've done better in europe but that was more on managers being unprepared as Brian Little later admitted in his book.

All fell apart after losing the 2000 cup final which was a massive turning point as we truly then became a making up the numbers in premier league club that lacked ambition and real strategic direction, he should've sold up in that period rather than clinging on until his health declined.

What following under Lerner and Dr Fraud is football ownership isn't as easy as just giving the incumbent manager hundreds of millions to spend every summer as was demanded in the Ellis era. John Gregory wanted to sign Izzet for 10m when we were top of the league in October 2011 so given we'd just signed Balaban for 6m who wasn't even making the bench I could fully understand Ellis refusing that request.

Ellis also tended to have a good instinct when to let managers go. Big Ron did great but his reign had run his course, same for Little. Someone with Lambert's record would've done well to last six months under him.

Not saying Ellis was this amazing chairman as we did have a bit of a cornershop mentality at him but compared to likes of other 90s owners like Sugar at Spurs and Johnson at Everton he did alright.

[sharkyvilla]

Paddy Riley got too much stick considering what the players he found went on to achieve.

[DeadlyDirk]

21 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

It was incredibly defensive, dour football. Far too many draws. It was symbolic of Lerner giving up on Villa, that we had accepted mediocrity, and if you had any ambition don't come to us. Yes he was the fall guy but bar a few decent moments the season was dreadful.  As you said Weimann was a highlight, his winner versus Fulham basically kept us up. We had gone from a solid top 6 club to relegation fodder in 2 seasons.

I agree, it was absolutely dour and dreary but there's no escaping the squad was threadbare and dreadful and I look back at it now and have no idea how we managed to stay up. I don't think he had the tools to do anything other than defend, defend, defend and try nick something on the break.

[Vive_La_Villa]

50 minutes ago, DeadlyDirk said:

I agree, it was absolutely dour and dreary but there's no escaping the squad was threadbare and dreadful and I look back at it now and have no idea how we managed to stay up. I don't think he had the tools to do anything other than defend, defend, defend and try nick something on the break.

You could argue the squad Lambert took over was even worse and had he not signed Benteke we were down. It’s amazing we managed another 3 years in the Premier league.