sne Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 12 minutes ago, Spoony said: I see no reason to be angry with the Saudi league or anyone going out there. No one involved in football has any right to be morally outraged. Sponsors here are mostly heinous betting companies and alcohol companies who ironically wouldn’t be allowed in Saudi. Where are the balls made? Where are the kits made? All with fair labour? No child or migrant workers? Aren’t there loads of state owned Italian and Spanish teams? is any owner at all squeaky clean? Have NSWE got all their money from ethically agreeable sources? you can go in circles with any of this. Football is morally bankrupt from top to bottom. I’m not defending anyone at all, but I also don’t see how anyone is in a position to point the finger. Grades in hell thou. Comparing our owners or pretty much anyone else in the world to MBS is night and day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 34 minutes ago, Spoony said: I see no reason to be angry with the Saudi league or anyone going out there. No one involved in football has any right to be morally outraged. Sponsors here are mostly heinous betting companies and alcohol companies who ironically wouldn’t be allowed in Saudi. Where are the balls made? Where are the kits made? All with fair labour? No child or migrant workers? Aren’t there loads of state owned Italian and Spanish teams? is any owner at all squeaky clean? Have NSWE got all their money from ethically agreeable sources? you can go in circles with any of this. Football is morally bankrupt from top to bottom. I’m not defending anyone at all, but I also don’t see how anyone is in a position to point the finger. I agree that the whole football world is morally bankrupt. I don't agree that we can't call out the most egregious examples of shit happening in the game. Self-funding owners that circumvent the rules the rest of the league comply with go beyond morale issues, and make the game a complete non-sporting event. It's quite possibly going to end up the straw that broke the camels back. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Bernardo Silva and Mahrez the next to go apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 2 hours ago, mikeyp102 said: Bernardo Silva and Mahrez the next to go apparently. Bernardo Silva going would be mental, walks in to any squad in europe That would be a world beater in his prime moving there If city lost him and gundogan this summer they'll need a new signing in the middle (!) kovacic ain't going to be enough to cover that loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono62 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 7 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Bernardo Silva going would be mental, walks in to any squad in europe That would be a world beater in his prime moving there If city lost him and gundogan this summer they'll need a new signing in the middle (!) kovacic ain't going to be enough to cover that loss They can buy Nakamba off us for 101 million. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Roberto Firmino has joined Saudi Pro League side Al-Ahli on a free transfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 9 hours ago, Spoony said: I see no reason to be angry with the Saudi league or anyone going out there. No one involved in football has any right to be morally outraged. Sponsors here are mostly heinous betting companies and alcohol companies who ironically wouldn’t be allowed in Saudi. Where are the balls made? Where are the kits made? All with fair labour? No child or migrant workers? Aren’t there loads of state owned Italian and Spanish teams? is any owner at all squeaky clean? Have NSWE got all their money from ethically agreeable sources? you can go in circles with any of this. Football is morally bankrupt from top to bottom. I’m not defending anyone at all, but I also don’t see how anyone is in a position to point the finger. I think we can confidently say that NSWE are much cleaner than the Saudi ruling family, yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 5, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2023 I don't remember Crystal Palace flying planes into the world trade center in fairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 10 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I don't remember Crystal Palace flying planes into the world trade center in fairness. How did you miss it?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 It's impossible IMO to become rich enough to buy a football club today without being ethically compromised in some way or other. I don't think there's much value in comparing piles of corpses, but I accept the inevitable conclusion that if you do that then you will come to the conclusion that states commit more violence than individuals because of course they do, they have the power to do so. But if we actually spent time investigating eg Sawiris' ties to Egypt's military dictatorship we would likely be able to uncover things that are not 'ethically unproblematic', let's say. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: It's impossible IMO to become rich enough to buy a football club today without being ethically compromised in some way or other. I don't think there's much value in comparing piles of corpses, but I accept the inevitable conclusion that if you do that then you will come to the conclusion that states commit more violence than individuals because of course they do, they have the power to do so. But if we actually spent time investigating eg Sawiris' ties to Egypt's military dictatorship we would likely be able to uncover things that are not 'ethically unproblematic', let's say. Probably, although publicly he's always been a more reserved character than his brother or his dad. He does "appear" to be a far more philanthropic genuine character than either. They must be throwing some mega mega money at some of these players. I do wonder how much the likes of Firminho and the lesser players are on. With Ronaldo on £173m a year imagine some of those lesser names are on at least £100m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sne Posted July 5, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2023 Whataboutism is the biggest friend of the sportswashing states and the people who benefit from it. No coincidence that Infantino leaned so heavy on it in his monologue at the start of the WC. MBS personally orders his henchmen to murder journalists who criticizes him, is responsible (along with Iran) for a horrific war in Yemen, has a horrible human rights, womens rights and LGBT record in the country he runs with an iron fist and has his fingers in a lot of stuff that happens all over the world. But all that's OK because Europe has a history of crimes and our owner knows the Egypt leader so we are the same. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, sne said: Whataboutism is the biggest friend of the sportswashing states and the people who benefit from it. No coincidence that Infantino leaned so heavy on it in his monologue at the start of the WC. MBS personally orders his henchmen to murder journalists who criticizes him, is responsible (along with Iran) for a horrific war in Yemen, has a horrible human rights, womens rights and LGBT record in the country he runs with an iron fist and has his fingers in a lot of stuff that happens all over the world. But all that's OK because Europe has a history of crimes and our owner knows the Egypt leader so we are the same. The retort to this will be that Saudi's PIF is invested in a lot of businesses beyond Newcastle United, including Activision Blizzard, Electronic Arts, Uber, Take Two, Live Nation Entertainment, Meta, Starbucks, PayPal, Microsoft, Salesforce, Carnival, Costco, Home Depot, Adobe, Alphabet, Amazon, Zoom, FedEx, Walmart, Pinterest and many many others, and if you manage to live a life of avoiding ever interacting with any of these businesses fair enough but I think it's probably quite hard to do so. The question then is if we don't worry about morality when it comes to investing in the products and services we all use everyday, what makes football special? The more I get older the more convinced I become that it's better to focus less on morality, because it is extremely vulnerable to whataboutism as you say, and instead focus more on the corrupting effect that state ownership has on sport as sport, ie that it spoils sport for some entities to have literally unlimited budgets and prevents fair enforcement of sanctions when those entities break rules and cannot be punished because attempts to do so become bilateral foreign policy issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, sne said: Whataboutism is the biggest friend of the sportswashing states and the people who benefit from it. No coincidence that Infantino leaned so heavy on it in his monologue at the start of the WC. MBS personally orders his henchmen to murder journalists who criticizes him, is responsible (along with Iran) for a horrific war in Yemen, has a horrible human rights, womens rights and LGBT record in the country he runs with an iron fist and has his fingers in a lot of stuff that happens all over the world. But all that's OK because Europe has a history of crimes and our owner knows the Egypt leader so we are the same. Isn’t saying Saudi Arabia should stop supporting the Yemeni government a bit like saying the US should stop supporting Ukraine? Probably a discussion for another thread though. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 minute ago, LondonLax said: Isn’t saying Saudi Arabia should stop supporting the Yemeni government a bit like saying the US should stop supporting Ukraine? Probably a discussion for another thread though. I don't think it is no. But yeah another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: The retort to this will be that Saudi's PIF is invested in a lot of businesses beyond Newcastle United, including Activision Blizzard, Electronic Arts, Uber, Take Two, Live Nation Entertainment, Meta, Starbucks, PayPal, Microsoft, Salesforce, Carnival, Costco, Home Depot, Adobe, Alphabet, Amazon, Zoom, FedEx, Walmart, Pinterest and many many others, and if you manage to live a life of avoiding ever interacting with any of these businesses fair enough but I think it's probably quite hard to do so. The question then is if we don't worry about morality when it comes to investing in the products and services we all use everyday, what makes football special? The more I get older the more convinced I become that it's better to focus less on morality, because it is extremely vulnerable to whataboutism as you say, and instead focus more on the corrupting effect that state ownership has on sport as sport, ie that it spoils sport for some entities to have literally unlimited budgets and prevents fair enforcement of sanctions when those entities break rules and cannot be punished because attempts to do so become bilateral foreign policy issues. Yeah people can live their life however they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Xela Posted July 5, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2023 56 minutes ago, sne said: Yeah people can live their life however they want. Unless you live in Saudi Arabia. 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Well I think we can just knock the debate on the head and just agree that football is ****, it has been **** for some time but we are truly reaching the crescendo now. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 10 hours ago, Spoony said: Well I think we can just knock the debate on the head and just agree that football is ****, it has been **** for some time but we are truly reaching the crescendo now. People have been predicting that the football financial bubble will burst for over 10 years but then more and more money keeps flowing in. Amazon will probably buy the next load of PL rights for about £500b a season and academy players will be on £250k/w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, Genie said: People have been predicting that the football financial bubble will burst for over 10 years but then more and more money keeps flowing in. Amazon will probably buy the next load of PL rights for about £500b a season and academy players will be on £250k/w Do you think amazon will be able to make money out of it where BT couldn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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