Race for Champions League - 2023/2024

[Mark Albrighton]

35 minutes ago, useless said:

Our dreams of fans should be to win a cup, that's the whole logical point of my brilliant argument, yes Champions League brings benefits, but the whole benefit of those benefits for fans is that they will help us win more trophies, so if offfered a trophy in the first place you take that as that is the ultimate aim, the pinnacle sporting achievement of a football team.

And no mentioning Spurs isn't silly, I didn't say anything about them not having a better time of it than us over the last ten or so years, so not sure what you're taking about there, I only used them as an example of qualifying for Champions League not being a guarantee of winning trophies.

If we were to win the FA Cup, I doubt anyone would swap it for top four, it's easy to say would prefer top four now as that looks more likely, so there's a need for some to frame it as the most fantastic outcome, both outcomes will be great achievements to be proud of and remember, but if we were to the FA Cup it would be our greatest victory since winning the European Cup,and if we were to win Europa Conference it would be our greatest achievement since winning the League Cup.

I'm not sure why people keep confabulating on about subject anyway, we don't actually have a choice, all this talk is shadows of things that might be not that will bee.

 

The first bolded part. You’ve said this a few times.

You’re essentially reframing it as - “We’ve ALREADY won the FA cup, now do you want to swap it for finishing 4th?”

As in, you’ve experienced and presumably enjoyed this triumph - wanna swap? 

Most people are not going to swap in that scenario. I wouldn’t want us to have won the FA cup in 1994 if it meant me losing my memory of the Tranmere semi final at Villa Park in the league cup.

But…if you had asked me in January 1994 which do I want, I likely would have said the FA cup.

And that’s where we are, neither have happened, so you reframing it as “we’ve already won something - you don’t want to swap it do you?” is moving the metaphorical goalposts of the question slightly.

 

On the second bolded part, well we don’t have much choice on a lot of things with the club, doesn’t stop speculation or discussion does it? The transfer window threads for instance would be pretty quiet if people were only to discuss transfers we had some involvement with.

[GlobalVillan]

10 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

 

This new CL format as well sucks 

 

I think it's great! For those who qualify that is. 8 guaranteed CL games, a few of which will be against the likes of Madrid, Bayern, Juventus etc...

The revenue from that would help us to slowly bridge the financial chasm between us and the likes of Chelsea and Spurs who would miss out shouod we qualify.

I still think 4th is gonna be a huge ask and I can really see us finishing 5th. Which currently has an 80% chance of being a CL spot. Any higher than that just isn’t likely this season. I would take 5th all day.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 hours ago, Pinebro said:

What are these new superstar signings Newcastle are having for playing in the champions league?

Or Leicester when they qualified?

I think the impact of it is very overrated and we have Wenger to thank for that who have brainwashed fans not just Arsenal fans into thinking top 4 is like a trophy.

I'll take an FA cup over top 4 any day of the week but preferably we can do both.

I think it’s more about keeping the top players that we currently have.

[villa4europe]

8 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said:

I think it's great! For those who qualify that is. 8 guaranteed CL games, a few of which will be against the likes of Madrid, Bayern, Juventus etc...

The revenue from that would help us to slowly bridge the financial chasm between us and the likes of Chelsea and Spurs who would miss out shouod we qualify.

I still think 4th is gonna be a huge ask and I can really see us finishing 5th. Which currently has an 80% chance of being a CL spot. Any higher than that just isn’t likely this season. I would take 5th all day.

 

I think it's got potential depending on how it actually plays out, it's going to be very strange and inevitably shrouded in an accusation of fixing 

Hard to know what to actually want from it, top table teams at home and whipping boys away or the other way round, a couple of big VP nights and some very doable away games, easy fixtures or like Newcastle this year the big games against the best teams 

It's definitely more interesting although if villa aren't in it I won't follow it closely enough to know what the hell is going on - edit - although in guessing the magic fixture machine will also kick out a huge game each round of fixtures, real Madrid won't play Liverpool the same week barca play bayern, they'll make it align perfectly somehow 

Edited December 17, 2023 by villa4europe

[S-Platt]

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think it’s more about keeping the top players that we currently have.

If top players want the prestige of Champions League and money that means English teams.  There is 1 who can guarantee qualification and that's City.  The others are in and out.  Good chance yearly with Liverpool and Arsenal but both have had seasons out of it recently.  Then it's Man Utd and Chelsea we all know they are basket cases.  Last 3 are Villa Spurs and Newcastle.

So if a player wants guaranteed Champions Lesgue it's City or a pay cut abroad.

Villa are in a strong position for any player at the moment every one pulling in the same direction.   Brilliant Manager, Owners, Set Up.

No player is going to want to bail on us if we fail to make it this year.

They all see the trajectory of the club and other players will see that too and want to be part of it.

Just keep doing what we are doing and see what happens enjoy the ride.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Just now, S-Platt said:

If top players want the prestige of Champions League and money that means English teams.  There is 1 who can guarantee qualification and that's City.  The others are in and out.  Good chance yearly with Liverpool and Arsenal but both have had seasons out of it recently.  Then it's Man Utd and Chelsea we all know they are basket cases.  Last 3 are Villa Spurs and Newcastle.

So if a player wants guaranteed Champions Lesgue it's City or a pay cut abroad.

Villa are in a strong position for any player at the moment every one pulling in the same direction.   Brilliant Manager, Owners, Set Up.

No player is going to want to bail on us if we fail to make it this year.

They all see the trajectory of the club and other players will see that too and want to be part of it.

Just keep doing what we are doing and see what happens enjoy the ride.

It’s more about the wages. Maybe I’m overthinking it but a lot of players are getting improved contracts.  Is revenue growing enough to sustain this?  It probably is but I just see what happened to Leicester and Wolves and hope the same doesn’t to us. I get we are a bigger club then both of those teams though.

[GlobalVillan]

26 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I think it's got potential depending on how it actually plays out, it's going to be very strange and inevitably shrouded in an accusation of fixing 

Hard to know what to actually want from it, top table teams at home and whipping boys away or the other way round, a couple of big VP nights and some very doable away games, easy fixtures or like Newcastle this year the big games against the best teams 

It's definitely more interesting although if villa aren't in it I won't follow it closely enough to know what the hell is going on - edit - although in guessing the magic fixture machine will also kick out a huge game each round of fixtures, real Madrid won't play Liverpool the same week barca play bayern, they'll make it align perfectly somehow 

I am sure they will find a way.

I don't watch the CL at all, Liverpool v Milan 2005 was the last game I watched on TV, but it would be amazing to be in it with a guaranteed 8 games. Won't be easy tho, as Spurs look good and Man United can always cause us problems. As can Newcastle, and with none of those 3 in Europe, staying ahead of them all is going to be tough. Top 3 sorts itself imo.

[Kiwivillan]

25 minutes ago, S-Platt said:

If top players want the prestige of Champions League and money that means English teams.  There is 1 who can guarantee qualification and that's City.

Players and agents will be wary of City with date set now to review the breaches 

[Pongo's Socks]

I think top 4 (or 5 if it's enough) reduces drastically the possibility of any of our best players leaving, at least for another season. Not saying it wouldn't happen, but I think Villa playing Champions League football would be a hell of a bargaining chip if anyone showed interest in Emi M, Dougie or Diaby for example. 

[GlobalVillan]

11 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Players and agents will be wary of City with date set now to review the breaches 

Why? Nothing will happen to them and players and agents will be aware of that. They may get a small points deduction and a large fine but neither will happen for a while and neither will stop them competing at highest level for eternity.

[Kiwivillan]

19 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said:

Why? Nothing will happen to them and players and agents will be aware of that. They may get a small points deduction and a large fine but neither will happen for a while and neither will stop them competing at highest level for eternity.

I wouldn’t be so sure of that. I guess we'll have to wait and see

[Leeroy]

Whether we favour a cup win or making the Champions League, I don't think it's about one season. Whenever Villa have been doing well in the past, it hasn't lasted very long. Top 6 under O'Neill lasted three seasons, then five or six seasons of being sh*t before dropping into the Championship. Top 6 under O'Leary, then finishing 10th and 16th before he was sacked. Big Ron 2nd, then 10th and then we were near the bottom when he was sacked. Little 4th and 5th, then we were 14th when he got sacked. I think only Gregory had any sort of consistency but even then our highest points total under him was 58 which was very average. 

 

It's important we right the wrongs of the past and have consistent challenges at the top. The league is so competitive now, but if we can stay in the top 8 at the minimum for the next 10 seasons that will distinguish these brilliant owners from the likes of Doug Ellis or Randy Lerner. Even now we have annoying and obnoxious Man Utd fans saying Villa are just in a purple patch and it won't last, we need to prove that we're not this type of club that enjoys success for a short period then reverts to being bad and can consistently challenge the top clubs season after season after season.

 

As for this season, I still maintain that getting top 4 will be our greatest achievement, but the target absolutely has to be top 4 and winning the Europa Conference league. We are capable of doing that with the squad we have, but it will mean going out of the FA Cup early which I am absolutely fine with. 

[Pongo Waring]

How did the FA CUP come into this thread?
 

[MotoMkali]

11 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

No gurantee it will lead to a trophy though getting top 4 this season.

This new CL format as well sucks 

 

Yes but it is significantly more money. Probably something like 45-50 mil euros if we just get 8 points on the "league" stage we can earn like 20 mil euros max from conference league and 30 mil max from europa. That's huge. 

[MotoMkali]

4 hours ago, Pinebro said:

What are these new superstar signings Newcastle are having for playing in the champions league?

Or Leicester when they qualified?

I think the impact of it is very overrated and we have Wenger to thank for that who have brainwashed fans not just Arsenal fans into thinking top 4 is like a trophy.

I'll take an FA cup over top 4 any day of the week but preferably we can do both.

Tonali. Probably a top 10 DM/B2B in the league. Like it is Luiz, Kamara, Tonali, Bruno, Rice, Rodri and then who else? 

[TRO]

with 22 games left we have 6 games against teams away from Home in the top tier of the away table( to date)

of which 5 we have beaten at home, already.

Makes you wonder.

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by TRO

[Pinebro]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think it’s more about keeping the top players that we currently have.

Yet Arsenal kept losing their best players under Wenger despite CL football

[Spoony]

6 hours ago, Pinebro said:

What are these new superstar signings Newcastle are having for playing in the champions league?

Or Leicester when they qualified?

I think the impact of it is very overrated and we have Wenger to thank for that who have brainwashed fans not just Arsenal fans into thinking top 4 is like a trophy.

I'll take an FA cup over top 4 any day of the week but preferably we can do both.

I tried to make the same point but you have worded it better. These are my thoughts exactly. 

[Panto_Villan]

6 minutes ago, Spoony said:

I tried to make the same point but you have worded it better. These are my thoughts exactly. 

Yeah, but as others have already said - it’s about keeping our current players. I don’t think we’re at risk of losing them this season if we miss out on CL because of the clear progress we’ve made, but if we miss out again next season and a club with realistic ambitions of winning the CL comes in for them? That’s when things start getting dicey imo.

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 hours ago, Pinebro said:

Yet Arsenal kept losing their best players under Wenger despite CL football

Yeh it doesn’t guarantee you keep your best players. It just helps you to carry on paying their wages.