Stevo985 Posted February 16 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16 15 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Playing devils advocate what if there’s a group of staff members that haven’t been doing a great job for quite a while now and Heck has tried to shake things up for the better but has gone about it the wrong way. Ive worked at places before where a new manager has come in and tried to improve things but has been hounded out by very comfortable staff. Unlikely but just another view point. If he’s done that then it’s fine assuming none of the contents of the letter are true. If he’s “shaken things up” by abusing staff, breaking employment law and committing gross misconduct then there’s no excuse 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Presuming this is not a hoax letter, the mere fact that such a document is circling around is an indictment on Heck’s leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 16 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16 29 minutes ago, thunderball said: A lot of truth in this statement. A lot on here won’t agree but personally I think badge-gate, Terrace View, Lower Grounds and postponement of the proposed expansion of the ground (in the form consented) are all petty minor or even non-issues, small in reality but always likely wind up some long standing fans. In the slightly podgy, outsider Heck, people have found their scape goat. No doubt things have happened that have ruffled feathers internally but I have a slightly cynical view on all this. I would be suspicious that personal agendas are being hitched to the “C*cksucker bandwagon”: I recently saw the commercial performance table and Villa were close to the bottom, for me that’s an absolute damning indictment of the regime so if NSWE have brought in someone to shake it up at its core, a few egos are going to get trodden on in what looks like fairly root and branch shake up, the fall out we have just seen is typical of the tittle tattle on social media. Im not defending Heck, he could well be an arsehole. The club needs to double its commercial performance very quickly so big decisions need to be made and for me the measure of Heck will be on this, but I fully expect people to leave and not be happy about it, and social media is such an easy way of throwing your sh*t around. But the main way they can compete with the big boys is with the new stand. So much commercial revenue sacrificed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Playing devils advocate what if there’s a group of staff members that haven’t been doing a great job for quite a while now and Heck has tried to shake things up for the better but has gone about it the wrong way. Ive worked at places before where a new manager has come in and tried to improve things but has been hounded out by very comfortable staff. Unlikely but just another view point. Is there any evidence to support this point of view though? So why fabricate a scenario that has no basis or inside knowledge when we have evidence and second hand reports of insider knowledge already that clearly show Heck is poison. We also have reports from his previous club of exactly the same thing. Edited February 16 by villa89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 6 minutes ago, villa89 said: Is there any evidence to support this point of view though? So why fabricate a scenario that has no basis or inside knowledge when we have evidence and second hand reports of insider knowledge already that show clearly Heck is poison. We also have reports from his previous club of exactly the same thing. Wow sorry! I’ll just crawl back under my rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: If he’s done that then it’s fine assuming none of the contents of the letter are true. If he’s “shaken things up” by abusing staff, breaking employment law and committing gross misconduct then there’s no excuse Without assuming the validity of the notes, or Heck's alleged actions, just looking at the misconduct scenario you mentioned, employment law etc. you could also say whoever wrote that letter and leaked it, is also bringing Aston Villa (the company) in to disrepute. Bringing a company in to disrepute is written in to many employees contracts, and the outcome is (from my experience), usually also gross misconduct. Edited February 16 by MaVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 16 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, MaVilla said: Without assuming the validity of the notes, or Heck's alleged actions, just looking at the misconduct scenario you mentioned, employment law etc. you could also say whoever wrote that letter and leaked it, is also bringing Aston Villa (the company) in to disrepute. Bringing a company in to disrepute is written in to many employees contracts, and the outcome is (from my experience), usually also gross misconduct. Not really comparable though is it Unless the letter is false, in which case throw the book at them. But if it's true then they're whistle blowing. You can't really say "oh that's also misconduct" in that context 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 5 minutes ago, villa89 said: Is there any evidence to support this point of view though? So why fabricate a scenario that has no basis or inside knowledge when we have evidence and second hand reports of insider knowledge already that show clearly Heck is poison. We also have reports from his previous club of exactly the same thing. No offence, but it is usually best to try and see both sides of any story before making a judgment. As many have said, that tweet could just be a disgruntled employee using previous accusations and current issues to further their agenda, there's no clear evidence of anything in there, just a lot of very serious accusations. I'm not saying it isn't true, it hasn't been disproven either, just that we should keep an open mind. There may be no actual evidence that makes it into the public domain, but if Heck and others leave in the next month or so then you'd have to think maybe some of what has come to light was true. I know we are on the internet where critical thought goes to die, and snap judgments are the norm, but I'd like to think we can at least be reasonable, hear both sides of the story and wait for some substantial evidence before breaking out the pitchforks. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_Evans Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Not really comparable though is it Unless the letter is false, in which case throw the book at them. But if it's true then they're whistle blowing. You can't really say "oh that's also misconduct" in that context There will be (should be) a whistleblowing policy though and that should be followed. That is not to say the letter isn’t disturbing on its own terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 16 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16 Just now, Stephen_Evans said: There will be (should be) a whistleblowing policy though and that should be followed. That is not to say the letter isn’t disturbing on its own terms. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Just now, Stevo985 said: Not really comparable though is it Unless the letter is false, in which case throw the book at them. But if it's true then they're whistle blowing. You can't really say "oh that's also misconduct" in that context While is see you point, and im sure many companies have many different variations on their contracts and policies etc, whistleblowing is "usually" written in to a contract or company policies to be undertaken in a certain way, which is usually an anonymous speak out line, or a HR process to raise concerns anonymously and investigations to be actioned outside of the management structure the employee is involved in. If i was looking at this with a level head and not my Aston Villa hat on, this may be whistleblowing in some form, but it is also bringing Aston Villa in to disrepute, and this wouldnt be the approved methodology of whistleblowing. im not for, against, or questioning their right to whistleblow, im just discussing the cold semantics of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 16 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16 Just now, MaVilla said: While is see you point, and im sure many companies have many different variations on their contracts and policies etc, whistleblowing is "usually" written in to a contract or company policies to be undertaken in a certain way, which is usually an anonymous speak out line, or a HR process to raise concerns anonymously and investigations to be actioned outside of the management structure the employee is involved in. If i was looking at this with a level head and not my Aston Villa hat on, this may be whistleblowing in some form, but it is also bringing Aston Villa in to disrepute, and this wouldnt be the approved methodology of whistleblowing. im not for, against, or questioning their right to whistleblow, im just discussing the cold semantics of it. Oh I'm sure they've broken rules. I just found the tone of the post a bit strange. It sounded like you were saying "Yeah Heck has done all that but these guys have also broken the rules" as if the two things were comparable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 I'm not sure I've ever seen a whistleblowing policy that's worth the paper it's written on tbh, especially when it's the big boss you're blowing the whistle on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Oh I'm sure they've broken rules. I just found the tone of the post a bit strange. It sounded like you were saying "Yeah Heck has done all that but these guys have also broken the rules" as if the two things were comparable i was just trying to assess it without getting emotional, everyone else is doing that just fine, i was looking at both sides from a contract/policies perspective. If the letter is true, heads deserve to roll, but its also unfair to take such a letter entirely on face value and assume every word is true, until its fully investigated and the facts are established. Edited February 16 by MaVilla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Fun Factory Posted February 16 Popular Post Share Posted February 16 If he does go, what will happen to the badge? Paused, back to this season's one? Another consultation? Will someone please think of the badge. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Wow sorry! I’ll just crawl back under my rock. Sorry, I wasn't having a go at you personally but there seems to be some kind of effort of protectionism in this thread. I don't see why FWIW, Heck has done nothing to deserve any benefit of the doubt, in his time here it's the opposite if anything. Edited February 16 by villa89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: If he does go, what will happen to the badge? Paused, back to this season's one? Another consultation? Will someone please think of the badge. Save our drop shadow! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted February 16 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16 I’m trying to play catch up on this topic, however I find it difficult to believe that the owners didn’t do their due diligence on Heck without a long interview process, checking previous employers etc. People don’t change overnight, if what is suggested is true then it would have come up in the process of the background checks. I have no doubt that Heck has come in with the direction from the owners to make change. The problem with change is some don’t like it and believe their little world shouldn’t be touched. Heck would have a totally different management style to the previous CEO who,probably appointed most of the current staff. On reading what was posted, it came across as somewhat petty and the views of someone who didn’t like the change. I also don’t like that it is anonymous, if you were fair dinkum you would raise it internally. The use of the language again just sounds somewhat made up, as it is an American phrase, but agin I just don’t see how this isn’t identified in the interview process by the owners. I may be completely wrong, but it comes across with someone not liking the changes being made by the club, and I can’t believe that the owners would not have taken the proper due diligence in Heck’s appointment. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) We get it that we have to change. Nobody wants us to stand still. We all want to break into the top echelons. We just aren't seeing how u-turning the new badge, creating the leaked one without proper consultation (objectively a less attractive logo than previous) and cancelling a redevelopment designed to help us bridge the gap in terms of match day revenue are "changes" designed to get us back into the elite. If there us a bigger vision/strategy it is being very well hidden whereas we had a lot ot transparency under Purslow. Edited February 16 by Captain_Townsend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, QldVilla said: I’m trying to play catch up on this topic, however I find it difficult to believe that the owners didn’t do their due diligence on Heck without a long interview process, checking previous employers etc. People don’t change overnight, if what is suggested is true then it would have come up in the process of the background checks. I have no doubt that Heck has come in with the direction from the owners to make change. The problem with change is some don’t like it and believe their little world shouldn’t be touched. Heck would have a totally different management style to the previous CEO who,probably appointed most of the current staff. On reading what was posted, it came across as somewhat petty and the views of someone who didn’t like the change. I also don’t like that it is anonymous, if you were fair dinkum you would raise it internally. The use of the language again just sounds somewhat made up, as it is an American phrase, but agin I just don’t see how this isn’t identified in the interview process by the owners. I may be completely wrong, but it comes across with someone not liking the changes being made by the club, and I can’t believe that the owners would not have taken the proper due diligence in Heck’s appointment. If you have no faith in the upper mgmt, HR and/or the whistleblowing policy at your company, then I can see how you wouldn't trust the official channels. Some parts might have sounded petty, but the accusations of lay offs being made illegality showed no such pettiness, but rather outright concern to me. Sure, but conversely I doubt lack of due diligence is the reason for all bad CEOs. Sometimes you think something will work out the way you think and it doesn't too. Due diligence isn't a guarantee that the best decision will be made, although in theory it should. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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