sidcow Posted June 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Hang on a minute- do we actually have the survey data on this? What is the response rate for a stand of 13,500? I don't remember a question asking if it was okay to remove half the concourse area and then for you to pay 500 quid to have access to it. Yeah, as with all surveys they can be manipulated. I am sure if they had said would you be interested in a "plus" offering that cost £500 plus a season and took away half the space in the stand, the results would have been very different. A bit like Brexit, many had absolutely no idea what they were voting for but ticked the box anyway as it was made to sound so nice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, sidcow said: Yeah, as with all surveys they can be manipulated. I am sure if they had said would you be interested in a "plus" offering that cost £500 plus a season and took away half the space in the stand, the results would have been very different. A bit like Brexit, many had absolutely no idea what they were voting for but ticked the box anyway as it was made to sound so nice. Yes but at least Brexit had a turnout of about 70%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 34 minutes ago, omariqy said: I love how they call it a 'bolt on'. Hell of a bolt on for £500 More like a fabrication weld on! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blobbyrob Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 Myself & brother are not happy bunnies. History: We've had season tickets since 1997 but in 2018 we decided to go for the hospitality experience. The reason being, I only get to see my brother on match days (both busy lives) (and we can afford it) so thought it would be a great idea to have access to a lounge before, during & afterwards so we could spend some quality time together having a good old catch up etc in nice surroundings. Our 1st season in hospitality was the Heineken Lounge with seats in the Trinity, which was great. Next we thought we'd upgrade to the 82 Lounge for a couple of seasons which was fantastic. Finally we opted for new the Gas Lamp Lounge in the North Stand along with seats in the Trinity which worked out at about £800 cheaper a season so we jumped at the chance. All's been good for the last few seasons in the Gas Lamp. Obviously we were aware it wouldn't last long as the redevelopment of the North Stand is due to start after next season, but we were shocked to find out (only 3 weeks ago) the Gas Lamp Lounge won't be available to us for next season. No reason given but must be something to do with the redevelopment. The alternatives we were given was to keep our seats in the Trinity but have no Hospitality, or relocate to the new Holte End Terrace View. Reluctantly we had little choice to move to the new Holte Lounge. Speaking to other folks from the Gas Lamp they will be doing the same. Just one other thing, I don't think we will be displacing any existing season ticket holders in the Holte as we've been told that seat location cannot be guaranteed so I presume we will just fill in where anyone hasn't renewed. Again see screenshot. The quoted price of £1300 per season is excl VAT so it will actually work out at £1560 each. See screenshot. Just thought it would be useful info for you guys in the Holte upper. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted June 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 5, 2023 5 hours ago, sidcow said: Yeah, as with all surveys they can be manipulated. I am sure if they had said would you be interested in a "plus" offering that cost £500 plus a season and took away half the space in the stand, the results would have been very different. A bit like Brexit, many had absolutely no idea what they were voting for but ticked the box anyway as it was made to sound so nice. 100% - i don't remember how it was worded, nor how i answered the question, but it definitely wasn't clear what this GA+ thing was 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 5, 2023 50 minutes ago, blobbyrob said: Myself & brother are not happy bunnies. History: We've had season tickets since 1997 but in 2018 we decided to go for the hospitality experience. The reason being, I only get to see my brother on match days (both busy lives) (and we can afford it) so thought it would be a great idea to have access to a lounge before, during & afterwards so we could spend some quality time together having a good old catch up etc in nice surroundings. Our 1st season in hospitality was the Heineken Lounge with seats in the Trinity, which was great. Next we thought we'd upgrade to the 82 Lounge for a couple of seasons which was fantastic. Finally we opted for new the Gas Lamp Lounge in the North Stand along with seats in the Trinity which worked out at about £800 cheaper a season so we jumped at the chance. All's been good for the last few seasons in the Gas Lamp. Obviously we were aware it wouldn't last long as the redevelopment of the North Stand is due to start after next season, but we were shocked to find out (only 3 weeks ago) the Gas Lamp Lounge won't be available to us for next season. No reason given but must be something to do with the redevelopment. The alternatives we were given was to keep our seats in the Trinity but have no Hospitality, or relocate to the new Holte End Terrace View. Reluctantly we had little choice to move to the new Holte Lounge. Speaking to other folks from the Gas Lamp they will be doing the same. Just one other thing, I don't think we will be displacing any existing season ticket holders in the Holte as we've been told that seat location cannot be guaranteed so I presume we will just fill in where anyone hasn't renewed. Again see screenshot. The quoted price of £1300 per season is excl VAT so it will actually work out at £1560 each. See screenshot. Just thought it would be useful info for you guys in the Holte upper. So I suspect they will fill Terrace View mainly by encouraging other corporate seats to move there from other areas. Then they can sell the vacated areas as "new" corporate packages. Could be a sign that existing upper Holte season ticket holders haven't jumped at the chance like they thought they might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 5, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted June 5, 2023 It would be interesting to know how many of the 5,751 seats in the Upper Holte End are currently occupied by season ticket holders - given that it seems unlikely that those people will take up all 1,000 of the spaces available in the Terrace View and that those Terrace View places are already being offered to people from hospitality areas in other parts of the ground - it would seem that there will be a number of people who will be in the Upper Holte because they have paid for the Terrace View rather than because they have a season ticket. I ask because I think the season ticket numbers up there are quite high - and if for example two-thirds of the seats in the Upper Holte are occupied by season ticket holders, that might mean that a day-tripping Terrace View family of four won't get the opportunity to sit together, or at least anywhere centrally. I'd assume it's reasonably possibly to push pairs into what's left, but you'd expect that the season ticket holders will have selected the more central seats nearer the front for view and the back for atmosphere - so @blobbyrob and his brother might end up being on the edges of the Upper Holte End for a significantly higher price than those that are already there - and if you were in a family of four or five brothers, then it might be pretty unlikely that you'd get to sit together at all. The club have already said that they'd be keeping some tickets back for single game use - for the season ticket holding family that wants to treat Dad on his birthday - that might seem a little less attractive if two of you are in the back corner and have to stand and three of you are at the front with a view down Witton Lane. As nosy as a I am, I'd love to see a seat map of season ticket holders and unallocated seats - with the back 10 rows going to safe standing, and central areas presumably occupied by season ticket holders - you'd wander how they'll go about squeezing the perhaps 600 people paying most money into seats that justify that cost. 6 hours ago, MrBlack said: The bigger issue, for me, is the fans forced to move out of their seats. Presumably most of them will find themselves looking in a different stand to continue their support, and only a minority will be happy to pay the extra £500. Its a very bad way to treat few rows. At this point, nobody is being forced out of their seats for this development as far as I'm aware - there are around a hundred moving for the new disabled seating area in the Lower Holte, but they won't have the opportunity (at least in the first instance) to use the Terrace View, that's Upper Holte Enders only - again though, it'll be interesting to see what happens if there's a group of six in there that want to stay in the Lower Holte - will they be forced out to the wings? Tucked behind the Doug Ellis? They will at least be given a discount this season which is something I guess. There might be an effect too on those people that buy occasional seats in the Upper Holte - it's an area that sells out pretty quickly anyway, but with all of the season ticket holders and a few hundred Terrace view folks in there, you might need to be quick off the mark as a member to find tickets in the Upper Holte next season. On the survey, does anyone remember the date that it went out? I think it was around the 14th February - the finished planning documents were submitted on the 16th March - so I'm not sure whether the survey was for illumination or support - it was, as others have said very carefully worded, It asked "Do you want nice things?" rather than any detail on how those nice things would be operated and whether or not you'd have access to them. It almost feels like the club have fudged this a bit in order to keep the peace where they might have been better off going the whole hog and pulling a block of Upper Holte seats for the terrace view. I think it's better this way, but it's going to take some careful management I reckon. As to what it tells us about the new North Stand - I"m not sure all that many of our additional 8,000 seats will be available for regular season ticket holders - I would imagine we'll get at least another couple of thousand GA+ seats and the club will take the opportunity to up the single game seats by another a good amount too - maybe another 3,000 regular season tickets available? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, sidcow said: So I suspect they will fill Terrace View mainly by encouraging other corporate seats to move there from other areas. I guess that makes sense as they are preparing for no corporate seating in the North stand at all next season. So all those corporate people will have to go somewhere else, and now we have a nice new area for them to relocate to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, sidcow said: So I suspect they will fill Terrace View mainly by encouraging other corporate seats to move there from other areas. Then they can sell the vacated areas as "new" corporate packages. Could be a sign that existing upper Holte season ticket holders haven't jumped at the chance like they thought they might. I think they misinterpreted the survey results. I expressed an interest, naively thinking it might be a fiver each to enter and I'd treat my family of 3 ST holders a few times per season. I'm not sure if on the day access will even be available, but to commit £480 extra per season is too much for most. At just over £25 per game, it's too expensive even if it includes two pints and a programme. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, brommy said: At just over £25 per game, it's too expensive even if it includes two pints and a programme. Actually if you took out the cost of the 2 pints and a programme (£14), then the cost for actual access to the lounge is £11 per game. If they sold it on that basis, it would sound much much better, and most people who pay for that £11 access would buy 2 drinks anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 5, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted June 5, 2023 3 hours ago, blobbyrob said: The alternatives we were given was to keep our seats in the Trinity but have no Hospitality, or relocate to the new Holte End Terrace View. Reluctantly we had little choice to move to the new Holte Lounge. Speaking to other folks from the Gas Lamp they will be doing the same. Just one other thing, I don't think we will be displacing any existing season ticket holders in the Holte as we've been told that seat location cannot be guaranteed so I presume we will just fill in where anyone hasn't renewed. Again see screenshot. Technically speaking are you now a season ticket holder in the Upper Holte? If you decided not to renew your Holte End Terrace View tickets next season, where would that leave you? Would you have the option of keeping the seat, or would you be moved back onto the season ticket waiting list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted June 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: I ask because I think the season ticket numbers up there are quite high - and if for example two-thirds of the seats in the Upper Holte are occupied by season ticket holders, that might mean that a day-tripping Terrace View family of four won't get the opportunity to sit together, or at least anywhere centrally. I'd assume it's reasonably possibly to push pairs into what's left, but you'd expect that the season ticket holders will have selected the more central seats nearer the front for view and the back for atmosphere - so @blobbyrob and his brother might end up being on the edges of the Upper Holte End for a significantly higher price than those that are already there - and if you were in a family of four or five brothers, then it might be pretty unlikely that you'd get to sit together at all. this is a really interesting point...the information is just unclear and if i was paying this premium, i would want a fairly central seat. a group of 4 will almost certainly be in k6/k7. i wonder how many of these people buying these tickets are aware of that they might not care of course, as they're kinda skipping the queue anyway so will probably just be happy wherever, but an individual on his own paying for the terrace might get a great central seat because there happened to be one spare, but a group of 4 paying the same price might end up at the sides...it could easily cause problems once the terrace lot start chatting to each other pre game and establish this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, ender4 said: Actually if you took out the cost of the 2 pints and a programme (£14), then the cost for actual access to the lounge is £11 per game. If they sold it on that basis, it would sound much much better, and most people who pay for that £11 access would buy 2 drinks anyway. I get what you're saying but I think that's still too much for most, especially as many are not fussed about the programme. £15 including 2 drinks (no programme) would see me spending £45 for my 3 ST family on a few occasions each season. At £75, I might do it once out of curiosity but I have a feeling the novelty would wear off and I'd end up feeling ripped off. I now have a vision of Obi-Wan Purslow waving his hand across me whilst saying 'You're not the football fan we're looking for'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, brommy said: I get what you're saying but I think that's still too much for most, especially as many are not fussed about the programme. £15 including 2 drinks (no programme) would see me spending £45 for my 3 ST family on a few occasions each season. At £75, I might do it once out of curiosity but I have a feeling the novelty would wear off and I'd end up feeling ripped off. I now have a vision of Obi-Wan Purslow waving his hand across me whilst saying 'You're not the football fan we're looking for'. Ah yes for 3 people it’s expensive. But if you’re with mates and only paying for your own ticket, for just over an extra tenner I’d do it a few times a season… and then spend more than £20 in the bar anyway! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted June 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 5, 2023 7 hours ago, blobbyrob said: Myself & brother are not happy bunnies. History: We've had season tickets since 1997 but in 2018 we decided to go for the hospitality experience. The reason being, I only get to see my brother on match days (both busy lives) (and we can afford it) so thought it would be a great idea to have access to a lounge before, during & afterwards so we could spend some quality time together having a good old catch up etc in nice surroundings. Our 1st season in hospitality was the Heineken Lounge with seats in the Trinity, which was great. Next we thought we'd upgrade to the 82 Lounge for a couple of seasons which was fantastic. Finally we opted for new the Gas Lamp Lounge in the North Stand along with seats in the Trinity which worked out at about £800 cheaper a season so we jumped at the chance. All's been good for the last few seasons in the Gas Lamp. Obviously we were aware it wouldn't last long as the redevelopment of the North Stand is due to start after next season, but we were shocked to find out (only 3 weeks ago) the Gas Lamp Lounge won't be available to us for next season. No reason given but must be something to do with the redevelopment. The alternatives we were given was to keep our seats in the Trinity but have no Hospitality, or relocate to the new Holte End Terrace View. Reluctantly we had little choice to move to the new Holte Lounge. Speaking to other folks from the Gas Lamp they will be doing the same. Just one other thing, I don't think we will be displacing any existing season ticket holders in the Holte as we've been told that seat location cannot be guaranteed so I presume we will just fill in where anyone hasn't renewed. Again see screenshot. The quoted price of £1300 per season is excl VAT so it will actually work out at £1560 each. See screenshot. Just thought it would be useful info for you guys in the Holte upper. Programme and lanyard you say? Looks a lot better value now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, romavillan said: Programme and lanyard you say? Looks a lot better value now. Useless trivia for the day... The word lanyard originates from the french word lanière, which was a strap used to fasten something, typically armour or a weapon in the military sense of the word. That became lanyer in olde English before, theories suggest, the word yard replaced yer due to the length of most lanyer straps. So if you were to get a lanière with your programme, would it make it even better value? It would be like signing Christophe Dubois instead of Chris Wood... you know which is getting the pulse racing more than the other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blobbyrob Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, ender4 said: Actually if you took out the cost of the 2 pints and a programme (£14), then the cost for actual access to the lounge is £11 per game. If they sold it on that basis, it would sound much much better, and most people who pay for that £11 access would buy 2 drinks anyway. How much is a season ticket in the upper Holte for the coming season? I have a feeling that access to the lounge would work out to more than your £11 per game when all told. Mine is £1560 which works out at £82.10 per game. 9 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Technically speaking are you now a season ticket holder in the Upper Holte? If you decided not to renew your Holte End Terrace View tickets next season, where would that leave you? Would you have the option of keeping the seat, or would you be moved back onto the season ticket waiting list? I would like to think so but who knows. After being season ticket holders for the last 26 years I'd be pretty p****d off if we did end up on the waiting list. I'm sure they would accommodate us somewhere. As soon as the new North Stand is built we would be looking to move back there, but that's going to be a while away yet. Edited June 6, 2023 by blobbyrob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 6, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted June 6, 2023 5 hours ago, blobbyrob said: I would like to think so but who knows. After being season ticket holders for the last 26 years I'd be pretty p****d off if we did end up on the waiting list. I'm sure they would accommodate us somewhere. As soon as the new North Stand is built we would be looking to move back there, but that's going to be a while away yet. I would hope so, I think if you start asa season ticket holder, you should be a season ticket holder - it'll be interesting to see how that would work if they open up the season long package in the Terrace to non-season ticket holders. Anyways, the lounge does look a really good facility and I hope your enjoy it and the Upper Holte! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 You'd guess they'd accommodate all the scenarios during the relocation window. If they wanted to limit those that bought the terrace view as a brand new ST holder (assuming this becomes possible) to only that type of ticket would be easily managed in that window. Anyone with a ST history you would like to think will get complete relocation freedom regardless (although if you'd moved to the upper holte from another stand as a Terrace View member, you'd probably be unable to just drop it from your package and keep the seat). Would be interesting to know all the permutations of what they have planned, and how complicated they're going to become when we lose the North Stand completely for most of a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 6, 2023 16 hours ago, blobbyrob said: As soon as the new North Stand is built we would be looking to move back there, but that's going to be a while away yet. Too good for the Holte End Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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