Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Arsenal

[tinker]

Reading the press reports and there's not one that mentions the offside goal or Saka's over the top tackle. Plenty about protecting him from tackles though. We really have to start bringing attention to these decisions, its game after game. Refs no they can **** us over and have no come back, if they made the same decisions against Arsenal then there would be an uproar.

[TheMelvillan]

In life those who shout loudest tend to get their way.

If that third goal had gone in against Utd, or Liverpool or any of the other big teams with winning mentalities and records, you can bet that three, four players would have been in the referees face, calling for offside, demanding VAR have a look, IRRESPECTIVE of if that's what they saw, or believed.

It is hateful, childish, ghastly behaviour, but tends to be extremely effective.

On the other hand, look at the Villa players, hands on knees, hands on hips, strolling dejectedly back to the centre circle. Our fearless captain laying on the ground in defeat.

Football is a game of margins and, crucially,  gamesmanship - that innate, ugly ability to use everything in your power to influence the outcome of a result, and to win.

 

VAR should be there to balance that gamesmanship - to make everything black and white, but it doesn't. In NFL every scoring play is reviewed, as standard. This doesn't seem to apply to football and I don't know why. Maybe if there was enough noise on the pitch this one would have, but I fear that Villa players simply lack that winning gene which would have caused their behaviour to force the referee into this action

[The_Steve]

28 minutes ago, TheMelvillan said:

In life those who shout loudest tend to get their way.

If that third goal had gone in against Utd, or Liverpool or any of the other big teams with winning mentalities and records, you can bet that three, four players would have been in the referees face, calling for offside, demanding VAR have a look, IRRESPECTIVE of if that's what they saw, or believed.

It is hateful, childish, ghastly behaviour, but tends to be extremely effective.

On the other hand, look at the Villa players, hands on knees, hands on hips, strolling dejectedly back to the centre circle. Our fearless captain laying on the ground in defeat.

Oh I agree, someone else mentioned earlier that Luiz should have complained or gone down when Saliba put his hand on his face. We need to develop a mean streak and complain. We got a pathetic fine for complaining to the ref before. But we need to remonstrate more effectively. I know Unai wouldn't complain but other managers would be complaining about the offside. Arteta is a cheating little bully baby, but it worked for them. Yes, the ref got it wrong against Brentford, but the media management plays an important part. 

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Is a guy right in front of where he dives. Its as blatant an interference as you will.get

Did our players complain about it?

[tinker]

6 hours ago, The_Steve said:

 Yes, the ref got it wrong against Brentford, but the media management plays an important part. 

This is where we can improve, Arsenal have a huge online presence that we should try and emulate. We are at a disadvantage in that the West Midlands has next to no traditional media based here so we have no fans in the media, the London clubs and the Manchester clubs do. 

We need someone at the club, other than Emery ,who can push our agenda when it comes to poor refereeing decisions that are costing us games. We are like lambs to the slaughter ATM. 

[danceoftheshamen]

So I wonder if we'll get a personal visit from Howard Webb to apologise after we were robbed by the non-double offside call for their 3rd goal? You know the one which is actually much worse than the one they disallowed for John McGinn at the Emirates a yera or two back when just one of our players was stood in a similar offside position albeit much further from the play and obviously nowhere near their keepers eyeline.

No didn't think so!

In a court of law I think I know what the verdict would be........ (Hint - Corrpution)

You could say it's sour grapes after losing although personally I am sick to death of it happening so obviously & blatantly almost every time we play one of these clubs. It is not possible for that amount of key decisions to consistently go in favour of these teams whenever they play against one of the "rest" of us, namely the 13 clubs who are not part of the "boys club". 

It needs investigating by an independent body a bit like Fifa was when the CIA was involved. 

They truly disgust me.

Says it all when they have to promote a spin merchant (Dermot Gallagher) to try & cover it up every week.

It also says it all when the one time they actually make an error against one of these clubs (The Brentford goal V Arsenal last week) that they send in Howard Webb to personally apologise and then magically, (as was clearly the brief) they ignore the blatant offside which was worse than the exact same one were disallowed against the same team! Apparently according to Gallagher "these are the most difficult ones to judge" and yet the one yesterday was far worse & more obvious with 2 players offending one of whom was ducking & swaying deliberately vs the McGinn one when it was obvious the single player involved was nowhere near the line of sight. 

Yeah good cover up attempt Gallagher. 

It's just mistakes though don't you know!   

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

 

[TRO]

On 19/02/2023 at 14:36, tinker said:

Why, you have seen the rules and the picture, what do you think is the grey area? 

Would Arsenal have won without that decision? 

I thought it was supposed be the goal scorer that has to be offside, now.......am I wrong?

[tinker]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I thought it was supposed be the goal scorer that has to be offside, now.......am I wrong?

You are wrong 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

So I wonder if we'll get a personal visit from Howard Webb to apologise after we were robbed by the non-double offside call for their 3rd goal? You know the one which is actually much worse than the one they disallowed for John McGinn at the Emirates a yera or two back when just one of our players was stood in a similar offside position albeit much further from the play and obviously nowhere near their keepers eyeline.

No didn't think so!

In a court of law I think I know what the verdict would be........ (Hint - Corrpution)

You could say it's sour grapes after losing although personally I am sick to death of it happening so obviously & blatantly almost every time we play one of these clubs. It is not possible for that amount of key decisions to consistently go in favour of these teams whenever they play against one of the "rest" of us, namely the 13 clubs who are not part of the "boys club". 

It needs investigating by an independent body a bit like Fifa was when the CIA was involved. 

They truly disgust me.

Says it all when they have to promote a spin merchant (Dermot Gallagher) to try & cover it up every week.

It also says it all when the one time they actually make an error against one of these clubs (The Brentford goal V Arsenal last week) that they send in Howard Webb to personally apologise and then magically, (as was clearly the brief) they ignore the blatant offside which was worse than the exact same one were disallowed against the same team! Apparently according to Gallagher "these are the most difficult ones to judge" and yet the one yesterday was far worse & more obvious with 2 players offending one of whom was ducking & swaying deliberately vs the McGinn one when it was obvious the single player involved was nowhere near the line of sight. 

Yeah good cover up attempt Gallagher. 

It's just mistakes though don't you know!   

Thats when they allow goals against us and change the rules after, as at Man City......are we the guinea pigs of the Prem?

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, tinker said:

You are wrong 

Oh Ok....got it.....I was confused with the two scenario's, but I see that they are linked.

I guess its hard to prove being unsighted, when Emi dives for it......its a tricky one.

but we always seem to miss out and the tricky ones, don't we.

Edited February 20, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

On 19/02/2023 at 13:36, The_Steve said:

You have two Arsenal players blocking his view which makes it illegal play. If VAR ruled they weren’t, I honestly give up.

Yeah, I get it now.....i didn't relate the 2....but thanks.

[fruitvilla]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I guess its hard to prove being unsighted, when Emi dives for it......its a tricky one.

OK ... we are penalizing Emi for being a good goalkeeper. A crappy one would not have moved and we would not be having this discussion.

[tinker]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

Oh Ok....got it.....I was confused with the two scenario's, but I see that they are linked.

I guess its hard to prove being unsighted, when Emi dives for it......its a tricky one.

but we always seem to miss out and the tricky ones, don't we.

When you look at McGinns goal that was disallowed for the same offence their keeper was nowhere near being unsighted, Martinez had two of there players blocking his view, one ducked.

If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck then it's a duck. We are being cheated out of results by officials who are being influenced to side with the biggest gobs. 

[TRO]

Just now, fruitvilla said:

OK ... we are penalizing Emi for being a good goalkeeper. A crappy one would not have moved and we would not be having this discussion.

No, I am trying to ascertain how you appeal for something thats hard to prove...hence my comments.

Look we have to be whiter then white, I see that, and its bloody frustrating, but how do we change it?

 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, tinker said:

When you look at McGinns goal that was disallowed for the same offence their keeper was nowhere near being unsighted, Martinez had two of there players blocking his view, one ducked.

If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck then it's a duck. We are being cheated out of results by officials who are being influenced to side with the biggest gobs. 

Which I accept your point....but what do we do, particularly when its too late?

[Zatman]

25 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

 

He pretty much blamed Emi because he dived for it

[TRO]

2 hours ago, tinker said:

This is where we can improve, Arsenal have a huge online presence that we should try and emulate. We are at a disadvantage in that the West Midlands has next to no traditional media based here so we have no fans in the media, the London clubs and the Manchester clubs do. 

We need someone at the club, other than Emery ,who can push our agenda when it comes to poor refereeing decisions that are costing us games. We are like lambs to the slaughter ATM. 

Step up Tom Hanks.

[tinker]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Which I accept your point....but what do we do, particularly when its too late?

We need to pile pressure on the officials to not treat us as an easy team to make poor decisions against. That's on the field and off it. Arsenal bleated about the offside decision against them last week and look what happens? We need to follow their lead and complain on TV, even if Emery got sent off complaining it would up the anti and everyone would look at the decision made. 

VAR should have disallowed that goal, just like the night Gerrard got sacked. Doug was sent off for head butting Mitrovic, there was no contact , where was VAR, where was our protest on the pitch, where was our protest off it , it was a mystifying decision. 

 

[TRO]

On 19/02/2023 at 14:11, markavfc40 said:

I agree it should but I think you have to put that into the perspective of being up against the side top of the league who before yesterday had scored 2 or more goals away from home against Spurs, Brighton, Wolves, Brentford, Bournemouth and Palace. 

As already discussed their third goal yesterday should have been ruled out and their 4th isn't even worth worrying about given it was the last seconds of the game and our keeper was 100 yards up the pitch. 

You could certainly make an argument they also could have had another couple of goals, but you can also make the same argument for us. My overall feeling yesterday though was that Arsenal just about deserved the win but we gave them a hell of a game and I think much of the crowd felt that way given the send off the players got at the end of the match. That our manager was highly disappointed/frustrated after the game was also great to see/hear as it shows the high standards he is setting so overall plenty to be positive about.

Everton Managed it.....too many buts, Mark.....we are in danger of finding an excuse, for every reversal....sure in boxing terms we was out pointed, and in snooker terms we need to learn how to play safe, pure potting won't win trophies.

I think the manager, is clear what the issues are, getting them to do it, is easier said than done

I am totally with the manager.....and he wasn't happy at all.

I can see why some folk, were happy with it, but maybe they can't see as readily why some folk wasn't.

Edited February 20, 2023 by TRO