Zatman Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Tammys a better finisher than ollie though. The amount of 1 on 1s ollie misses is ridiculous. Tammy was never like that Tammy missed a bucketload of one on ones in the Championship his XG for Roma and Chelsea is quite shocking compared to Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Yup, Abraham isn't the answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 1 hour ago, maqroll said: We need to beat back the likes of Wolves, Brighton, Palace, Leicester and Newcastle. Another summer of recruitment and then set our sights on West Ham. West Ham are nothing special, you make them sound like an elite team. 11th place Bundesliga/farmer team knocked them out of Europe last season 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted July 18, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 18, 2022 18 minutes ago, Zatman said: Tammy missed a bucketload of one on ones in the Championship his XG for Roma and Chelsea is quite shocking compared to Watkins He did score 17 goals in 37 games. For someone whose xg is shocking, he sure scores some g's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, HKP90 said: He did score 17 goals in 37 games. For someone whose xg is shocking, he sure scores some g's. he got 17 goals but his xg was 22 though, Watkins XG was 11.5 for 11 goals 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted July 18, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Zatman said: he got 17 goals but his xg was 22 though, Watkins XG was 11.5 for 11 goals Fair enough, but he still scored 17 goals. With the exception of the last year at Chelsea, where he was ill used, he's been scoring at a rate of almost 1:2 at Roma, at Chelsea, at England, England U21s and Villa. The guy scores goals. Over his whole career so far he's 151 goals in 318 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Fair enough, but he still scored 17 goals. With the exception of the last year at Chelsea, where he was ill used, he's been scoring at a rate of almost 1:2 at Roma, at Chelsea, at England, England U21s and Villa. The guy scores goals. Over his whole career so far he's 151 goals in 318 games. His XG at Chelsea is also poorer than Watkins time at Villa, his XG is also a lot worse than Lukaku at Chelsea Roma and Chelsea are also much better teams than us so he will get a lot more chances 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaphan04 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Tammy would cost upwards of 60 million, is not an upgrade on either of our strikers atm, and would be creating another logjam of strikers which we already have with Ings and Watkins. Also would probably not be good to bring another one in front of Archer (even though I don't think he's necessarily as ready as some think on here) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Philosopher said: The Sangare hype train reminds of the summer before we signed Darren Bent. Everyone was mentioning him, saying how he was a great goalscorer which was exactly what we lacked. But when we got him, we found out his workrate and link up play was trash. His finishing was good, but not great, then he got injured came back fat and was never the same again. All those youtube highlights of Sangare on the ball he has the time to take 2 or 3 touches to get the ball under control. You don't get that time in the prem. I can see an expensive flop for any prem team that signs him. He would do better in Italy or Spain. Ings reminds me of Bent in a way. Signed him at wrong time. We needed Ings when Grealish was here as think that link up would've been brilliant, guess it wasn't realistic to sign him in summer 2019 but we needed to spend all the Wesley money and more on him that summer, didn't Southampton sign him for about 20m around that time. Issue with Bent is we signed him, he looked excellent for six months and then we sold Young and Downing and we all know he wasn't a forward who could create stuff by himself like Benteke. Bent under O'Neill would've been better with the crosses flying in. I think we'll start the season with the present crop of strikers we have. Would be really interesting if Archer could score a few in prem early as surely then we'd have to let go of one of the main two as we can't really have Ollie and Ings both warming the bench given the wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Ings reminds me of Bent in a way. Signed him at wrong time. We needed Ings when Grealish was here as think that link up would've been brilliant, guess it wasn't realistic to sign him in summer 2019 but we needed to spend all the Wesley money and more on him that summer, didn't Southampton sign him for about 20m around that time. Issue with Bent is we signed him, he looked excellent for six months and then we sold Young and Downing and we all know he wasn't a forward who could create stuff by himself like Benteke. Bent under O'Neill would've been better with the crosses flying in. I think we'll start the season with the present crop of strikers we have. Would be really interesting if Archer could score a few in prem early as surely then we'd have to let go of one of the main two as we can't really have Ollie and Ings both warming the bench given the wages. Ings joined Southampton year before we came up on loan and they had obligation to buy him in 2019. We never had a chance to buy him then 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Tammy missed a bucketload of one on ones in the Championship his XG for Roma and Chelsea is quite shocking compared to Watkins I would love Abraham here but he isn't worth the fee required now, he was worth his transfer fee to Roma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Zatman said: he got 17 goals but his xg was 22 though, Watkins XG was 11.5 for 11 goals I feel his positional play (18 yard box only) and proven scoring record would benefit us. I believe if he was first team here his XG would be more than Watkins. It is all academic though to me as like I said he isn't worth the fee required this summer and I would rather fix elsewhere first. I know he would have went to arsenal anyway but a smart move would have been Zinchenko as he is a good player for a good price and could cover 3 positions for us. (3/6/8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 hour ago, HKP90 said: The Meaning Evil is touting that Chelsea have offered us the 'opportunity' to buy Ross Barkley again. Ahahaha. Bless em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 We need another Dwight Yorke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Once bitten twice shy. Ross Barkley had a few very good games for us, and a lot of anonymous ones. He maybe a great guy but his record speaks for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancvillan Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 I'm going to risk sounding like an absolute know-it-all-Nathan when that couldn't be further from the truth. I've never had the problem of being the smartest guy in the room. As a lover of stats who almost pledged his life to it's study, xg is a useful tool but it's not the last word on a player's effectiveness. If you're using it in conjunction with other stats then great, but we shouldn't start taking league tables of xg as gospel. I've done all of 30 seconds of digging into how the statsbomb model works (other models might be different) but two things jumped out straight away: 1. It's based in historical data, so assumes football as a game is somewhat static. Also each chance is compared to others, but no previous shot is going to be exactly same and maybe those small differences have a big effect. 2. It doesn't assign any weight to the ability of players involved, so if you're taking a throw in, it doesn't matter if the opposing keeper is prime Peter Schmeichel or Peter Enckelman. There are going to be lots of other gaps since modelling something as complex as football is no easy (or even possible) task. Unless you assume all players are spherical. That's a joke for an audience of maybe five people. If you don't get it you're missing nothing. For a season of less than 25 chances these gaps could make a big difference. That's not to say we ditch xg, just treat it for what it's worth - one of a lot of useful tools that can lead you down the wrong path if you use it on its own. Also, I don't think we need another striker, but I'd take another number 8 all day long. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa87 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 I really don’t think we should be pushing for a striker. I don’t think we will get better than what we have without spending a crazy amount of money and then they have to want to join us. Both Ings and Watkins frustrated last season, yet both have proved to be better than last season. Throw in Archer and I really think we have some good options there. We have to be mindful of a bloated squad and our wage structure. I would definitely aim for a new CM to rotate with McGinn, Luiz and Ramsey. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Mate Tammy missed loads and that was in the Championship. I swear people have short memories. Have you been watching him at roma? The championship was what four seasons ago? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 5 hours ago, Zatman said: he got 17 goals but his xg was 22 though, Watkins XG was 11.5 for 11 goals Still scored more goals than ollie. I bet ollie missed more chances than tammy did last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 50 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Have you been watching him at roma? The championship was what four seasons ago? I haven’t but I reckon Ollie would tear up Serie A. It’s not the league it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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