Steven Gerrard

[nick76]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I find it hard to believe a guy with years and years of playing at the top of the game, and dragging his team, back in to a European cup final, is clueless as to what happens in a game...I don't buy that.

Roy Keane

Gary Neville

won more, played more often at the top ends were horrible managers…I can name loads more the same,

[Mark Albrighton]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am not saying that at all.....I am just trying to apportion blame fairly.

do you think its fair to expect him to finish in a European spot and give him ONE first team player.....after finishing 14th?

My point is..... We are right to question him, his results are relegation form, and it will take some surviving.....but I am not sure, some of the criticism is fair.

I think, One new signing, ( Carlos was unfortunate, but thats not his fault either) is a bit much to ask any manager, to turn this around.

I have not got the confidence, that some of our players are as good as we think they are.....and judging by the market place, maybe I'm right.

But Gerrard is big factor in why we eventually finished in 14th. And I don’t mean that as a compliment. While I don’t think the squad is quite there for a European push, I think it’s better than 14th.

We were up to 11th by the end of 2021. We have a dabble in the market, bring in Digne and Coutinho on big money and we drop further down the league.

We have another dabble in the transfer market, bring in a couple more on what I expect is big money and we’re lower still, despite having faced opposition who at best will finish about 8th.

 

And as @Nabby says, which players are you referring to that backs up your opinion of the market value of the squad? The players I think we’re trying to offload have basically been frozen out and - surprise, surprise - other clubs don’t value them too highly. The ones that Nabby references, the ones that are being played wouldn’t have a shortage of suitors.

[TRO]

Just now, nick76 said:

Roy Keane

Gary Neville

won more, played more often at the top ends were horrible managers…I can name loads more the same,

Clueless.....so they are clueless, about football.....come on Nick, don't be silly.

Not successful Managers, No......but I am talking about unfair comments, and clueless, is absurd.

of course you can, its not hard.

 

[StefanAVFC]

He literally inherited a squad of internationals and he’s signed at least 3 more

this apologist shite about the players is some of the biggest tripe I’ve read on VT in years

Better managers are getting more out of worse squads in this league due to actually knowing a little about tactics, having an identity and not just putting a load of money quality players on the pitch all at once and hoping one of them do something magical. 

[QldVilla]

27 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I'll be fair @TRO

3 wins in 15 likely to be 3 in 17 after next week and he needs time? How long does he need, another 5-10 games which could be loses, then we write off the season.  I really think he has had enough time, we are a mess, he is a poor coach.

I also cannot believe a man of your experience @TRO you really think after managing Rangers in a poor league, Gerrard has the experience to come in and manage AVFC. It's far too big for him, like Chelsea was too big for Lampard.

You can say what you like about Gerrard, but your narrative doesn’t reflect reality. People are quick to forget Rangers we’re dumped to the bottom division and had to work there way back and Gerrard got them across the final hurdle by rebuilding their team to what they are today. I agree he wasn’t ready to be a manager of a PL club he should have stayed at Rangers for a few more seasons.
 

Scotland is a poor league, but like anything all leagues go in cycles and Rangers in the past two seasons have finished at the quarter final and final of the Europa League and now both the big two are in the CL main group. A league may be poor but doesn’t mean some teams in that league aren’t competitive across Europe.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Nabby said:

Qualifying for Europe isnt the issue at the moment , the issue is he can't beat any team of any note .

Market Place , the players we are actively trying to sell are not in the team , or the squad in some cases .The ones mostly playing Martinez , Cash , Mings , Ings , Watkins , Luiz , Buendia , Bailey Ramsey if we wanted to actively sell we would have no issue shifting any of those .

His team has beaten a poor Everton and 2 relegated teams in the last 15 .We are getting worse , we are creating less .

Do we need better players to go for Europe - yes 

Are the players we have good enough to beat teams like Bournmouth and Palace ..yes 

I am speculating, but the players he trying to move on, could be stopping us from signing new ones, to achieve the ambition, we had at the start of the season.

because I can't believe SG only wanted to sign what we have, most of them are cover....something is not right.

 

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

because I can't believe SG only wanted to sign what we have, most of them are cover....something is not right.

 

Apart from Kamara, Digne and Coutinho that is. 

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

Clueless.....so they are clueless, about football.....come on Nick, don't be silly.

Not successful Managers, No......but I am talking about unfair comments, and clueless, is absurd.

of course you can, its not hard.

 

Clueless about managing a team, yes, they have proved it in the top leagues and failed badly.  As we have discussed before playing and managing are completely different skill sets, just because you are good at one doesn’t mean you are good at the other.  Of course they know about football but they don’t know how to manage/coach a team in the top divisions.  Just different skill sets.  Gerrard looks like he’s in that category.

You’re just falling for the trap because he was an elite football and leader on the pitch and gained all that knowledge, that it’s easily transferable to being a manager….it’s just not!

Edited August 29, 2022 by nick76

[El-Reacho]

27 minutes ago, WooJung said:

Is it fair to say he's the most disliked manager we've had in at least a decade? I'm trying to think of competition and I mainly think of Bruce, Garde and McLeish.

McLeish was rubbish and had the blues connection, but came across as an honest, humble and nice bloke.

Garde was rubbish and unpleasant, but pretty much took an impossible job.

Bruce could be very unpleasant, was rubbish and underachieved, but to his credit he did steady the proverbial ship and did lay the foundation on which Dean built our promotion on.

Gerrard is rubbish, he is unpleasant and unlike all three has actually inherited a good squad, and he's greatly contributing to a massive regress not only on the pitch, but apparently off it as well. 

I don’t remember Garde being disliked in anyway. The other managers you’ve mentioned (including SG) had massive egos to the point of arrogance and very little to back it up. Garde tried to go about his business quietly and efficiently but was just massively out of his depth. Most of the anger was toward Lescott/Richards/Gabby etc. who were utterly toxic when Garde tried to impose any level of discipline at the club.

[picicata]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am speculating, but the players he trying to move on, could be stopping us from signing new ones, to achieve the ambition, we had at the start of the season.

because I can't believe SG only wanted to sign what we have, most of them are cover....something is not right.

 

I admire you for defending the indefensible 

[ChesterDad]

15 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Roy Keane

Gary Neville

won more, played more often at the top ends were horrible managers…I can name loads more the same,

Bobby Charlton is another classic case in point 

[Stevo985]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am speculating, but the players he trying to move on, could be stopping us from signing new ones, to achieve the ambition, we had at the start of the season.

because I can't believe SG only wanted to sign what we have, most of them are cover....something is not right.

 

Eh?

Coutinho, Kamara, Digne, Carlos all starters. 

[Nabby]

2 minutes ago, El-Reacho said:

I don’t remember Garde being disliked in anyway. The other managers you’ve mentioned (including SG) had massive egos to the point of arrogance and very little to back it up. Garde tried to go about his business quietly and efficiently but was just massively out of his depth. Most of the anger was toward Lescott/Richards/Gabby etc. who were utterly toxic when Garde tried to impose any level of discipline at the club.

SG looks the same mistake as Garde in as much as  CEO going back to his old club to pick up a former player , all be it SG had a much higher profile as a player than Garde.

[Dale]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am speculating, but the players he trying to move on, could be stopping us from signing new ones, to achieve the ambition, we had at the start of the season.

because I can't believe SG only wanted to sign what we have, most of them are cover....something is not right.

 

That's no excuse... The balance of the squad might not be right, but a competent coach gets the best out of the squad he has. You can't spend your entire time whingeing that you don't have the perfect squad, especially when you have a very very good one in place. 

He made 37 signings at Rangers in three years, that gives me MON alarm bells, at least MON won games though. 

He's unlikely to get another job in management after this. He's exposed himself here. 

[macandally]

5 hours ago, AstonMartyn88 said:

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Ffootball%2F2022%2F08%2F29%2Fwhy-steven-gerrard-already-pressure-aston-villa%2F
 

John Percy in the Telegraph. Paywall removed

There are several red flags in that report, but “fringe players training separately” suggest a division,  that is simply unacceptable.

 

[mykeyb]

Gerrard isn’t really a coach is he. It’s been said as a player he didn’t show any interest in tactics. Graft and skill was what made him who is was.

He picks the formation and the coaches do the rest, but something isn’t working and hasn’t been since the last 10 games of last season. It’s rumoured that some players aren’t happy which we assume is down to Gerrard.

I think when he goes he will not get another premier league post and I am not sure his ego would allow him to drop down to the Championship. He will be done.

[El-Reacho]

17 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Roy Keane

Gary Neville

won more, played more often at the top ends were horrible managers…I can name loads more the same,

It’s easier to try and list the elite level players who’ve gone on top be top managers. There’s not very many.

[nick76]

Just now, mykeyb said:

Gerrard isn’t really a coach is he. It’s been said as a player he didn’t show any interest in tactics. Graft and skill was what made him who is was.

He picks the formation and the coaches do the rest, but something isn’t working and hasn’t been since the last 10 games of last season. It’s rumoured that some players aren’t happy which we assume is down to Gerrard.

I think when he goes he will not get another premier league post and I am not sure his ego would allow him to drop down to the Championship. He will be done.

He’ll just become a pundit like Keane and Neville, and I think he’ll be great at it because the bits he’s done in the past were good. Don’t think he’ll have a soft spot for us though

[ChesterDad]

3 minutes ago, El-Reacho said:

I don’t remember Garde being disliked in anyway. The other managers you’ve mentioned (including SG) had massive egos to the point of arrogance and very little to back it up. Garde tried to go about his business quietly and efficiently but was just massively out of his depth. Most of the anger was toward Lescott/Richards/Gabby etc. who were utterly toxic when Garde tried to impose any level of discipline at the club.

I make you right - Garde was on mission impossible.

For me Bruce is the worst of the lot, total Charlatan of a manager imo and not a guy I would want in the trench with me ( Sheff wed fans say hi) 

McLeish was a terrible choice of manager for us - but I do believe he is a genuine character, I don’t blame him for taking our job, but we all knew how it would end.

Gerrard’s reign now has all the hallmarks of Bruce’s spell and we are sleepwalking to the same outcome - when you have lost the fans, it’s a very long road back. Whilst I would not say he has lost all the fans - 2-3 defeats from now and I believe he will have.

[StefanAVFC]

If it isn’t the manager why are teams like Brighton, Leeds and Brentford getting so much more from so much less?