Steven Gerrard

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

This is a fair point. The manor of defeat was alarming. We really were lucky to only lose by 2 goals.  The thing is it didn’t seem from players not trying, it seemed like it was players completely devoid of any confidence. This is the most worrying thing for me because I considered Gerrard to be a good motivator.

I think the problem with top class players who decide to go into management  is that they still see the game how they saw it as  a player. So when they played they recognised problems during a match or a phase of a match and could actually do something about it. As they were top level players they were generally able to actually do something about it, which is why they were top players. 
 

Now as managers they maybe see what the problem is but can only tell the players on the pitch what they would have done and often the player hasn’t got the ability to do it. Frank Lampard appears to be struggling too. Undoubtedly an elite player but significantly, like Gerrard he played for a top team with players similarly talented as himself. So both of them have no experience in getting the best out of a less talented set of players. It’s rare that a great player makes a great manager. Less talented players have always had to work around solving problems within their own limitations, so when they come into management,  viewing the game within players given abilities is nothing new. 

[Jas10]

Just now, VillaParkAvenue said:

There's certainly a big difference between those first Gerrard games and what came later, when he had time to work on his ideas. Those first games were basically just sitting back in a tight shape, hand over possession and play on the counter. Not very exciting but it did give us a few points.

Again, with Beale and without…

I don’t see what SG brings and what we’re paying him to do…

[El-Reacho]

1 minute ago, Jas10 said:

Again, with Beale and without…

I don’t see what SG brings and what we’re paying him to do…

Beale was there for quite a bit of rubbish toward the end of the season though.

[Jas10]

1 minute ago, El-Reacho said:

Beale was there for quite a bit of rubbish toward the end of the season though.

I didn’t say Beale was any good

But at least he has an idea in terms of setting up a team and coaching.

The manager is lost without a competent assistant.

Critchley has just arrived and needs to make an impact asap, if he’s any good that is.

But why are we paying SG when he barely fulfils the roles and responsibilities of a PL manager?

Edited August 23, 2022 by Jas10

[Thug]

36 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said:

In the premier league:

Smith 1.15ppg

Gerrard 1.27ppg

I'm not saying we are where we should be with the squad we have btw, but hysteria this so far this season has been off the scale.

We had the 9th best record in the league since Gerrard arrived last season and it would have been 8th but for the last 20 mins against City. That sounds more like close to replicating our position in the wage table than being miles away, no?

How on earth can you include Smith’s survival season stats in their respective PPG’s and come out with the conclusion that SG is doing a good job?

If anything those stats make SGs look utterly appalling.

[Jas10]

We have a top class player in Kamara but this manager is going to drive him into the ground… too much is going to be asked of him, too much burden and responsibility if we don’t address our main problem area - midfield. McGinn and Ramsey are no help, but more so the manager.

Maybe we sign a proper partner for him but I don’t expect it, can’t see it. SG has his favourites and it’s a big problem.

Why is McGinn our captain?

[duke313]

8 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

With Beale and without Beale.

He can’t function without an assistant. It’s all on Critchley now…

 

Honestly, what does he do? Because he clearly can’t coach or set up a team. Leans on his staff too much.

So Beale had an instant impact on our team shape after two games?  I'm sure if you looked you could find a similar image to the one on the right from last season when Beale was still here.

[Jas10]

2 minutes ago, Thug said:

How on earth can you include Smith’s survival season stats in their respective PPG’s and come out with the conclusion that SG is doing a good job?

If anything those stats make SGs look utterly appalling.

Context is everything, this is the best squad we’ve had in aaaaages and he’s failing to get a tune out of it. He’s doing a terrible job.

And he hasn’t even brought the right players in to address any deficiencies we may have.

Instead, he’s made our poorest performing midfielder the captain of the team!

[Jas10]

Just now, duke313 said:

So Beale had an instant impact on our team shape after two games?  I'm sure if you looked you could find a similar image to the one on the right from last season when Beale was still here.

I’m not “bigging up” Beale, I don’t even rate him. But it’s further evidence that SG does not know how to set up or coach a team without an assistant to heavily lean on. 

[CVByrne]

2 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

What about the 25 game + playing rubbish streak? 

There is no 52 game plus rubbish streak though is there?

The Brighton, Southampton, Leeds, Norwich, Burnley & Everton wins were good performances. As was first half against Spurs, 2bd half against United and the losses to Liverpool and City were good performance wise. 

A few meh ones in the draws with Leeds, Palace and Burnley. 

It's called inconsistency. Not 25+ games of Rubbish. But don't let the actual events get in the way of your narrative 

[Jas10]

1 hour ago, IrishVilla10 said:

 

I don’t think it’s a lack of confidence or effort. It’s a lack of game plan, easily exposed formation, a lack of coaching is the only answer for it. We look like we’re sent out to work things out on the pitch without being told what to do. Zaha exposed us within 10 minutes, did he not watch Liverpool last week? Anderson did what he wanted with the ball. If we continue playing like this it’s insanity  

Exactly. No effective coaching, system or plan. It’s pure ineptitude and it’s maddening.

The players are probably more confused than anything…

He doesn’t learn from his mistakes and the only indications is that he doesn’t know what to do nor how to fix the problems.

So concerning.

[markavfc40]

50 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said:

We had the 9th best record in the league since Gerrard arrived last season....

This we'd be 9th stat since he arrived doesn't mean much does it. Of the 11 games we'd already played last season before he took over that included games away to Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs. The 3 games we've played this season haven't been against any of the better sides.

What if we lose the next game does that drop us down to 14th best since he arrived,? lose next 3 does that take us down to 18th? 

38 points from 30 games equates to 48 points over a season. That would be 7 less than Smith's last full season. Given our form over the last 25 games (26 points / 1.04 PPG) , or last 15 games (15 points/ 1 PPG) or last 5 games ( 4 points/ 0.8 PPG) I'd say the odds on him getting anywhere near 48 points, never mind the 55 points of his predecessors last full season, becomes less likely the longer he stays.

[tomsky_11]

10 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

And do you think it looks like we'll finish 8th? 9th?

Still entirely possible. I'm not worried yet beyond likes of Palace, Newcastle, Brighton looking good, but expected that anyway.

15 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Does it concern you that a nice chunk of the points he won were at the start of his reign? A new manager bounce maybe!

How long does it count as new manager bounce? Because, break his games last season into thirds, he had as many points in the second set of 9 games as the first.

17 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Our last 15 or so games we've been putrid. Results and performance. I would think our most recent games are a better indicator of future performance than a period of games from November to May last season.

No neccessarily no. Are games late in season with little to play for a better indicator than earlier on with more to play for? Does the level of opposition count for anything.

Also I disagree on your opinion of the last 15 games. 4 wins which were for the most part comfortable, decent performances. 3 draws in which we were on top for the most part. Defeats last season to teams that finished 1, 2, 4, 5, 7 and 10. All but one by 1 goal margin. I'd argue all bar Arsenal were good to ok performance wise and might have got more from them on another day. Weirdly the worst in terms of scoreline probably contained the best team performance from an attacking perspective in the first half. Bournemouth is the worst of the 15 and I think we got the line up wrong as mentioned elsewhere, but also away to newly promoted side on opening day can throw up unexpected losses (see last season). Palace are just a decent side and better than us on the day. And even then the game ultimately swung on a terrible penalty decision just when we'd gone close to taking the lead.

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

There is no 52 game plus rubbish streak though is there?

The Brighton, Southampton, Leeds, Norwich, Burnley & Everton wins were good performances. As was first half against Spurs, 2bd half against United and the losses to Liverpool and City were good performance wise. 

A few meh ones in the draws with Leeds, Palace and Burnley. 

It's called inconsistency. Not 25+ games of Rubbish. But don't let the actual events get in the way of your narrative 

I think that's ignoring events to fit your narrative. 

[Rolta]

19 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Again, with Beale and without…

I don’t see what SG brings and what we’re paying him to do…

It's an easy thing to say, but you're definitely drawing conclusions from very basic evidence. There's so much that goes into a year worth of slightly contrasting player positions and we don't know much. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

50 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Bit pointless. Smith had a whole season where just surviving was success. Gerrard has been brought in to take us to the next level. 

Do you see us as a team finishing in the top half this season?

Without contradicting my current outlook, technically, he hasn't " failed " at doing this yet.

I agree that it doesn't look likely based on current evidence, but who knows.

[a m ole]

25 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

With Beale and without Beale.

He can’t function without an assistant. It’s all on Critchley now…

 

Honestly, what does he do? Because he clearly can’t coach or set up a team. Leans on his staff too much.

To be fair we went shit under Beale too

[Thug]

If you twist my arm really hard, I might at a push accept that given time he may come good.

 

But anyone defending what he’s served up so far as anywhere near acceptable has lost their marbles in my opinion.

This is the most one dimensional, clueless, repeatedly try the same crap regardless of how unsuccessful it is garbage I’ve seen for as long as I can remember.

Rather have Bruce back.  At least we could crack kebab jokes. 

[DCJonah]

48 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said:

Sure I get that, hence saying we aren't neccessarily where we should be right now with this squad.

But the post I was replying to was suggesting he was doing worse and he's not. Should he be doing better, yeah maybe. But this isn't the disaster that it's being made out to be just yet. That would've been continuing what Smith's form last season and seeing us relegated, not having the 9th best record in the league since arrival.

Yeah don't see why not. Extend Gerrard's overall form from last season + improvement at DM + any other improvements we might make in personnel before window closes, should equal a top half finish. Not guaranteed obviously beause likes of Palace, Newcastle, Brighton are looking good so far this season so it's going to be very competative.

It doesn't look like We'll get overall form. It looks very much like the downward form we saw from him.

 

[Jas10]

11 minutes ago, Rolta said:

It's an easy thing to say, but you're definitely drawing conclusions from very basic evidence. There's so much that goes into a year worth of slightly contrasting player positions and we don't know much. 

I’m not reading that much into it other than it’s an additional example of how SG struggles without an assistant…

I already knew we were crap, but more and more evidence, stats and data is coming out to back that up. I haven’t seen anything positive.

I’m not exactly giving Beale credit either. 

Anyway, why do you think we are worse anyway? Why have we become a worse team with no identity, style, strategy and are basically a complete mess? What is your reasoning for the decline?

Edited August 23, 2022 by Jas10