Steven Gerrard

[Sam-AVFC]

5 hours ago, HKP90 said:

Nah, I've stuck up for Stevie since his appointment, cos that's what you do with a manager. If it turns out he's rubbish, I'll support the new manager, because that's what you do (clue is in the word supporter). I'm not taking any 'I told you so' shit from people who wrote him off before a ball was kicked, no chance. Legitimate concerns leading to a withdrawal of support based on results, sure, but I'm not abiding any guff from those who had a premeditated agenda. They can do one.  

You seem to misunderstand.

hippo always says he hated Gerrard and wants him to fail. Obviously this is unreasonable.

Quite a few others pointed out warning signs in our play, that we haven't improved and seem to have no clear style. They were shouted down, mocked and told they were being doom mongers. Those people were right, whether or not you want to listen to an 'I told you so'.

It's OK to just be wrong sometimes.

[bannedfromHandV]

1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said:

You seem to misunderstand.

hippo always says he hated Gerrard and wants him to fail. Obviously this is unreasonable.

Quite a few others pointed out warning signs in our play, that we haven't improved and seem to have no clear style. They were shouted down, mocked and told they were being doom mongers. Those people were right, whether or not you want to listen to an 'I told you so'.

It's OK to just be wrong sometimes.

There you go mate, assume that’s what you’re after 

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Makes me think of poker when you're so committed with betting that you have to just see it through instead of doing the sensible thing of folding. 

Maybe that’s why I was so good at poker in my Uni days, I would walk away in those situations.  It’s hard to walk away when you are so invested but if that’s the right thing I walked away. I don’t know why I haven’t played poker since, I always did ok from it.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I know many won't agree but I genuinely think the toxicity has come quick because of who he replaced. Smith was a very popular manager. There was always a small group on here that didn't like him but that was not replicated at Villa Park and around the fan base. 

 

No i definitely agree, many people have admitted as such, not just on here.

I've had raging debates with fans on other media and in the end when we settle for peace i'd get a " Man I still love Dean Smith "

And I get it.

[AshVilla]

4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

There you go mate, assume that’s what you’re after 

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I know many won't agree but I genuinely think the toxicity has come quick because of who he replaced. Smith was a very popular manager. There was always a small group on here that didn't like him but that was not replicated at Villa Park and around the fan base. 

 

Part of the reason. Club also promised a significant upgrade and not a nepotism appointment of a guy learning on the job

It doesn't help we then ripped up 3 years of hard work and changed our transfer policy to give this rookie the keys to the kingdom to burn it down

[Mantis]

14 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Combination of both. If Gerrard replaced a Bruce or Mcleish I doubt the feeling of connection with the club would change. But he replaced a popular manager who brought the club back and rebuilt that positivity. 

And it feels now like that was all for nothing. 

Yes Smith did those things, but we were also stagnating by the time he was sacked, and I wish people would stop acting as if he was unjustly sacked or something. Most on here agreed that it had to be done IIRC. The problem was the replacement.

[The_Steve]

Gerrard came in and stabilised us last season. But stuttered since. I think it’s emblematic of factors of trying to create clear lines between two different eras and understandably wanting a return on major investments. We still have the nucleus of a squad that just about survived. And whilst we’ve seen progress and positive transfers in some ways - we haven’t seen the reality of the lofty ambitions. Did we put the horse before the cart? In some respects yes. But punishing Gerrard for the crime of not being Smith isn’t a healthy response to unacceptable performances and results. Smith had to go and equally is a club legend for getting us back in the league. Both views aren’t incompatible. 

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Yes Smith did those things, but we were also stagnating by the time he was sacked, and I wish people would stop acting as if he was unjustly sacked or something. Most on here agreed that it had to be done IIRC. The problem was the replacement.

You wish people wouldn't have a different opinion to you? 

I think he was unjustly sacked. Given the numerous factors from months previous to the credit he had in the bank. 

I think plenty of others do as well, which makes the lack of progress hurt even more. 

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, The_Steve said:

Gerrard came in and stabilised us last season. But stuttered since. I think it’s emblematic of factors of trying to create clear lines between two different eras and understandably wanting a return on major investments. We still have the nucleus of a squad that just about survived. And whilst we’ve seen progress and positive transfers in some ways - we haven’t seen the reality of the lofty ambitions. Did we put the horse before the cart? In some respects yes. But punishing Gerrard for the crime of not being Smith isn’t a healthy response to unacceptable performances and results. Smith had to go and equally is a club legend for getting us back in the league. Both views aren’t incompatible. 

I don't think it's that. It's more that we lost what we had previously for nothing. 

All I've wanted to see is a sign that moving on from Smith was the right decision to progress the club forward. There hasn't been anything to show me that might be the case. 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

You wish people wouldn't have a different opinion to you? 

I think he was unjustly sacked. Given the numerous factors from months previous to the credit he had in the bank. 

I think plenty of others do as well, which makes the lack of progress hurt even more. 

Yep I agree, I think unless we were going after a top top manager there was no point sacking Smith.  That doesn’t influence my view of Gerrard now, it may have done a bit at the time of hiring Gerrard but not now.  

I didn’t think Gerrard was the right for mostly the right reasons and nothing has changed then in fact those reasons have got stronger.  Smith, I think was unjustly sacked given the choice the club made afterwards.  

Doesn’t matter it’s past history, Gerrard would be rightly sacked if he went today which isn’t going to happen unfortunately.

[Mantis]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You wish people wouldn't have a different opinion to you? 

I think he was unjustly sacked. Given the numerous factors from months previous to the credit he had in the bank. 

I think plenty of others do as well, which makes the lack of progress hurt even more. 

No I wish people would just stop rewriting history.

But of course I can understand why replacing him with someone clueless like Gerrard would sting more.

[nick76]

Just now, duke313 said:

We’d have been relegated if Smith stayed.

No chance, that’s just hyperbole.  We weren’t going to get relegated under Smith.  It may have been a bad season but just as Smith had bad runs he also had good runs.  I’m not sure the season would’ve been any different to the season Gerrard finish with.

[CarryOnVilla]

Just now, duke313 said:

We’d have been relegated if Smith stayed.

That would imply Steven Gerrard saved Villa, but how, what did he do to the squad that improved Villa and carried on improving them. 

he hasn’t imposed a style, a philosophy, a tactical template for the the players to work from… there’s no identity to a Steven Gerrard led Aston Villa, and there doesn’t seem like one is being formed 

[duke313]

Just now, CarryOnVilla said:

That would imply Steven Gerrard saved Villa, but how, what did he do to the squad that improved Villa and carried on improving them. 

he hasn’t imposed a style, a philosophy, a tactical template for the the players to work from… there’s no identity to a Steven Gerrard led Aston Villa, and there doesn’t seem like one is being formed 

Got us enough points to take us away from relegation 

[jim]

4 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Would be interested in hearing what you disagree with

Preferring Villa to lose than win matches. Not difficult to understand. 

[sne]

3 minutes ago, duke313 said:

You can’t rewrite something that didn’t happen. There is a timeline somewhere, where Smith didn’t get sacked, and we got relegated.

Dean Smith in the Multiverse of Sadness 

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

Dean Smith in the Multiverse of Sadness 

Purslow is the big bad fighting through multiverses to try make Gerrard the supreme manager

[nick76]

10 minutes ago, duke313 said:

You can’t rewrite something that didn’t happen. There is a timeline somewhere, where Smith didn’t get sacked, and we got relegated.

There is a timeline somewhere that I’m dating Ana de Armas as well.  There probably also a timeline where Smith gets us to 50 points as well.  We can all make things up.  I don’t see how Smith would’ve done any worse than Gerrard to be honest.

[Sam3773]

This is all fairly academic at this stage, in my opinion. Gerrard has lost the fan base. There are many reasons why it's happened at such speed, but nonetheless, they've largely pinned their colours to the mast. 

I won't say there is no way back, but it's a very steep uphill battle when you're this deep in the mire. I don't solely blame form either. Although awful, if we had lost while attempting to play a recognisable style of football, I think the Gerrard-Out noise would be dampened somewhat, and rightly so. There are still some clinging on to "he needs time", and I wouldn't disagree if the signs were there; The players not taking to the style or the manager needing time to transplant the system. 

The problem is those aren't there. The form is awful, but there's no silver lining. There's no discernable style. It's not that the players aren't picking 'it' up, it's that no one seems to know what 'it' is, and this brings me to the conclusion that this is simply academic at this stage. 

A win against West Ham would be lovely, and very welcome, but it somewhat kicks the can down the road. A win would likely come as a result of chance rather than something clicking, resulting in the calls for Gerrards head being put on hold for a week, rather than putting them to rest. 

So while I'm usually in the "he needs more than 30 games" camp, I can't see a way back for Gerrard now. With every passing game, for me, we delay the frankly inevitable changing of the guard. There are no glimmers of hope that I can identify, not even small ones, and I believe this is why a large portion of the fan base have made their minds up. 

It's now 'when' rather than 'if'. We will delay for more games, of that I'm sure, but it's exactly that - a delay. What this doesn't take into account is Gerrards ego. It would be easy for him to walk before he's pushed. Save face, cite deals falling through and a lack of support from the board, and walk straight into the next bottom half Premier League team. 

One thing is for sure - at least from where I'm sat - Steven Gerrard won't be our manager for Christmas. How much time we waste hoping is up to them.