Energy Bills

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, choffer said:

 

I've not seen any context to that image and I'm not here to discuss that  , but I was reading this article about windfall tax and thought I'd share it ( with the caveat that I don't know who Pinsent Masons are and what agenda they have , if any ..the author seems to be a lawyer with expertise in the oil and gas sector) 

 

The North Sea oil and gas industry has grappled with similar policies before. But experience shows that, while well-intentioned, a windfall tax on providers could actually do more damage than good. The Treasury might reap a short-term gain, but the energy industry – and, ultimately, consumers - could be left to deal with the long-term pain.

Part of the concern lies in the question of who ends up paying the tax. If the burden falls on shareholders, then millions of ordinary people will foot the bill through pension funds, savings and insurance policies that have investments in the oil and gas industry. Alternatively, if the tax forces energy companies to increase prices, then it is their customers who will ultimately pay – the very people that the proposed windfall tax is intended to help.

The oil and gas sector’s profits are already taxed at a rate of 40% – more than double that of any other sector of the economy – and owing to the rise in the price of gas, HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) is set to take in an additional £3 billion from providers in the two years since last April. As the offshore industry body OGUK said earlier this year, a rise in gas or oil prices “always means a bonanza for the UK Treasury.”

The Covid-19 pandemic prompted unprecedented levels of government spending, and ministers are right to want to balance their books. But a one-off levy on top of the outsized tax burden that oil and gas providers already shoulder could damage the future of the UK’s domestic energy market. As North Sea output gradually declines, a windfall tax could prompt an increased reliance on imports from Russia and the Middle East, reduce competition and startle investors or future entrants into the industry.

The UK’s energy sector is in the middle of a seismic shift towards net zero carbon emissions: indeed, this week OGUK announced that it was expanding its remit and rebranding as Offshore Energies UK. A windfall tax could also risk stifling research and development funding for new lower carbon energy business lines and see money earmarked for capital expenditure projects diverted into paying the new levy.

[turvontour]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

I saw that, UAE increasing output.

How long until prices drop at all?

Ye back up 5% again today, Opec reigning UAE in.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

don't you tend to get the benefits of this long term though ..and governments by and large can only think in short term  ?

The Uk govt scrapped the Swansea tidal lagoon due to the cost ,  the excuse was that by 2050 it would cost £20bn more than a wind and nuclear combined project , presumably that same cost exercise carried out now would show a different figure ? as technology moves us ever further forward  (there is now the Blue Eden project which seems to be proposing to build  a variant of it ? )

its yankee $ data but in 1956,the cost of one watt of solar capacity was $1,825 , now estimated to be  $.70 per watt  , 85% of that drop in cost has happened in the last decade 

To an extent, yeah. But even now the Gov't acknowledges (or official stats do) that onshore win and Solar were the cheapest cost even compared to pre Ukraine gas price rises. (The two higher ones are Gas turbine, with various carbon capture and storage add ons). Nuclear is off the scale. In other words the assessemnt now (or a couple of years ago) was that greener is cheaper, and that is more true today than it was then. Gov't knows. But gov't policy doesn't reflect the reality, sadly. 

[lapal_fan]

1 hour ago, turvontour said:

Ye back up 5% again today, Opec reigning UAE in.

That's the issue, all of the Middle East have to agree.

In 2020, they put American oil rigs out of operation overnight because they all agreed to increase production - with Russia/Ukraine as they are - OPEC could clean house here if they dropped their margins.

We'll see - but the Middle East could be utility heroes.. Which feels odd. 

[Tayls]

Just had an email from our oil delivery company… offering us a delivery of 500L for… £775. 
… I paid £301 for the same amount in Jan. ****. 

[Genie]

32 minutes ago, Tayls said:

Just had an email from our oil delivery company… offering us a delivery of 500L for… £775. 
… I paid £301 for the same amount in Jan. ****. 

How long does 500L typically last?

[Talldarkandransome]

My boss emailed everyone today saying that due to the rise in energy bills we can start to book spots in the office again to save on heating the home.

The missus uses the car for work so I'd have to either get taxis or buy another car. So I chose to continue working from home as will probably be cheaper than running 2 cars

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said:

My boss emailed everyone today saying that due to the rise in energy bills we can start to book spots in the office again to save on heating the home.

The missus uses the car for work so I'd have to either get taxis or buy another car. So I chose to continue working from home as will probably be cheaper than running 2 cars

As it’s practically spring heating will be less of an issue. Record prices for petrol and diesel will make going in more expensive than WFH unless you live very close.

[Xela]

On 04/03/2022 at 18:22, Xela said:

167.9 now.

 

174.9 today!

£62 for about half a tank. 

[Xela]

5 hours ago, Genie said:

How long does 500L typically last?

For my folks, I think about 4 deliveries a year of 500L.

Not quite every 3 months as peaks and troughs as they might go 5 months without needing a fill up in summer but need it more regularly in the winter when my Dad has the heating on constantly! 

 

[Genie]

19 minutes ago, Xela said:

For my folks, I think about 4 deliveries a year of 500L.

Not quite every 3 months as peaks and troughs as they might go 5 months without needing a fill up in summer but need it more regularly in the winter when my Dad has the heating on constantly! 

 

So that’s over 3 grand a year just on oil. Shocking.

[Genie]

24 minutes ago, Xela said:

174.9 today!

£62 for about half a tank. 

I filled up just under 2 weeks ago, It’ll probably last another 10-14 days. Hopefully things settle a bit by then.

[bickster]

Tonight’s local Diesel prices:

BP / M&S £1:73.9

Shell EG £1:76.9

Esso EG £1:76.9

Tesco £1:59.9

My prediction for tomorrow

The BP will match the two EG

Tesco will go to £1:66.9 

I’m hoping Tesco stay where they are obviously because right now that’s a 77p a gallon difference. Absolutely ludicrous price differential

[Tayls]

6 hours ago, Genie said:

How long does 500L typically last?

We can make it last a good four months or so most probably, especially with summer coming up. Its just a case of having to have a spare £775 to pay for the oil straight out, they don’t offer a ‘pay monthly’ or anything like that. 

[Tayls]

I need the bloody crypto stuff to start paying off!! @Genie 

Slim chance if that happening any time soon! 

[dappadan]

17 minutes ago, Tayls said:

We can make it last a good four months or so most probably, especially with summer coming up. Its just a case of having to have a spare £775 to pay for the oil straight out, they don’t offer a ‘pay monthly’ or anything like that. 

Just checked and 900 quid for me now. 

[foreveryoung]

We have been told to WFH as much as we can. I can do around 40k miles a year, an had a particular busy week driving. Iv'e put in £160 so far, which is generally my max, but I'm empty for tomorrows run to Manchester so need another £35-£40 there and back. If I did these miles every week it would end up costing another  £140  month an that's supermarket fuel max £1.60 a litre.

[Xela]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

So that’s over 3 grand a year just on oil. Shocking.

It will be soon yeah. £500 for the last fill up. £290 for the one before that. God knows what the next one will be! 

You used to be able to ring up the oil delivery company, order your fuel, they'd come out within a day or two, fill the tank and pop the invoice through the letterbox. You'd then pay at your leisure. Now they want payment up front when you order. They must have had some bad debts during covid, combined with the far higher cost of oil now, I guess they can't risk. 

Dad said they deliver at weird times. Once at 6am in the morning. Luckily they just let themselves in the back garden and fill the tank without bothering you. 

[Xela]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Tonight’s local Diesel prices:

BP / M&S £1:73.9

Shell EG £1:76.9

Esso EG £1:76.9

Tesco £1:59.9

My prediction for tomorrow

The BP will match the two EG

Tesco will go to £1:66.9 

I’m hoping Tesco stay where they are obviously because right now that’s a 77p a gallon difference. Absolutely ludicrous price differential

For comparison, the Shell in Four Oaks was 171.9 for diesel today. 

[bickster]

So today's local price watch is that nothing has changed today.

This is good news, it means that BP / M&S have seemingly stopped price matching the two hyperinflationary EG garages and Tesco have decided that they are at their current price level. It's still a 77p gallon difference but I'll live with that as long as Tesco stay where it is a microtad under £1:60

I had a bit of a drive further afield today and spotted one Texaco garage out Banks ways that had a 15p price differential between petrol and diesel (£1:62.9 & £1:77.9) which is just bonkers