DJBOB Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: Yeah there's definitely an issue here. It's not just height, it can't be. I'm not sure exactly what McPhee's remit is, but something needs fixing defensively on set pieces. It's not just height but it's a large part of it. It's height and a combination of the profile of our defenders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Just now, Jas10 said: We use a combination of zonal/man marking that leaves us vulnerable to mismatches and open space at the back post and top of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Just now, DJBOB said: We use a combination of zonal/man marking that leaves us vulnerable to mismatches and open space at the back post and top of the box. I still remember when McGinn was marking Vestergaard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Is this true? Per fbref - We've given up 8 goals from dead balls - tied for last with Luton, Forest, and Sheffield. And remember that Luton are equally prolific at attacking set pieces but pants at defending them as well so this idea that because we're good at attacking set pieces means we should be good at defending them doesn't really hold water. In counter-point, we are second in the league at scoring from set pieces with 7 - again tied with Luton, Tottenham, and you guess it - West Ham. Arsenal lead with a staggering 15. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 If he wasn't doing his job properly then there is no way Unai would keep him on when he cleared out the rest of the backroom team. I suspect defending set pieces is down to other coaches. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) 27 minutes ago, DJBOB said: We use a combination of zonal/man marking that leaves us vulnerable to mismatches and open space at the back post and top of the box. I can guarantee that the zonal/man marking combo comes from the Emery play book and the coaching aspect is delegated to MacPhee . I imagine he has more freedom on attacking set pieces. If it were all on MacPhee then we’d still be using the long throw from throw ins it’s well know Unai is obsessed with were players are positionally for throw ins I imagine it’s the same on defending set pieces in order to set up our next phase of play be it retaining possession and building out the back or a quick transition up Field. Edited March 18 by gwi1890 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 4 minutes ago, gwi1890 said: we’d still be using the long throw from throw ins Eurgh… don’t remind me… every… single… one… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 It felt earlier in the season that despite the lack of height we had a very good system for defending set pieces. Then its gone to shit . Attacking wise i think he is ingenious with his free kicks though. Putting a man on the goalie until just before the free kick is taken unsettles them and also gives Dougie or Leon a spot to aim for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: It felt earlier in the season that despite the lack of height we had a very good system for defending set pieces. Then its gone to shit . Attacking wise i think he is ingenious with his free kicks though. Putting a man on the goalie until just before the free kick is taken unsettles them and also gives Dougie or Leon a spot to aim for. I think it’s very dependent on the team we’re playing. Ajax and Forest didn’t trouble us at all. But other teams with better set pieces have been giving us problems. So credit to them but the advantage we had (Mings) last year means that we will lose set piece situations to better set piece teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Feels like it's going to an nth degree to find something wrong with the side IMO. Yes, we're weaker on dealing with aerial bombardments... but we don't play a style that involves much heading at all. We're possession based, pass it around, work clever set pieces, squeeze the pitch. We don't set up to give sides many crosses against us and we then also rely on Martinez claiming more crosses than with other sides who may have, say, tall, powerful defenders. Of the five sides who face the least crosses in the league (we face the 5th least), us and Arsenal have goalkeepers who claim the most. Now, Arsenal (and Gabriel in particular) are also very good in the air at both ends of the pitch, but it's a clear shift away from, essentially, facing headers. We want our defenders to be more comfortable with the ball at their feet than we do having them be aerially dominant. It doesn't mean we can completely avoid doing defensive set piece work to an extent, but I imagine we're not going to emphasise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, DJBOB said: We work set pieces very well that allows us to open up certain pockets for players like Ollie to have a free jump. Ollie or whoever is scoring isn't exactly towering over their markers. We use a combination of picks and screens to free up Ollie at the front post or others at the back post. But when the ball comes into our box - they do a combination of crowding out Emi and then just bullying our players. When they do it its called crowding out and bullying, when we do it, its a screen. I dont see teams dominating us in the air, west hams goals (including the disallowed ones) were all low to the ground and exposed us not being organised, often running back towards out goal. I dont think this is about height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano & Dalian's Umbrella Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, Jas10 said: Is this true? Yes, he does look like he needs to be deeply sanitised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) 9 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: When they do it its called crowding out and bullying, when we do it, its a screen. I dont see teams dominating us in the air, west hams goals (including the disallowed ones) were all low to the ground and exposed us not being organised, often running back towards out goal. I dont think this is about height. To be fair, West Ham are very good on se pieces and have one of the best set piece takers in the country. But apart from the West Ham game, we have a pattern of being unable to clear the first ball (especially in the near post area - and this was the Mings speciality), and then being hampered at the back post with the mismatches others have talked about (Tielemans on Soucek, Kamara on Maguire, etc etc) as well as having too much space at the top of the box because we've committed 3/4 zonal players at the front post with everyone else man marking (Newcastle's goals at home). While there are some structural problems - we just did not have these problems last year with Mings. There were shades of this problem (Stevenage goal FA Cup, Arsenal winner) but a lot of that was cut out and it's not like we have a completely different set up than we had last year. But last year, we had Mings take care of all the problems at the front post and now we have Watkins who's half a foot shorter. Edited March 18 by DJBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 the answer for me is that he's shown that he can work on our set pieces so we get in a defensive version of him too, we have 2 set piece coaches 1 for each end of the pitch (**** you danny!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 7 minutes ago, villa4europe said: the answer for me is that he's shown that he can work on our set pieces so we get in a defensive version of him too, we have 2 set piece coaches 1 for each end of the pitch (**** you danny!) Considering how much money a single position in the PL is worth then hiring a set pieces defensive specialist feels like a good investment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 3 hours ago, Jas10 said: Is this true? Emery would have got rid of him ages ago if he wasn't a good coach. Considering the amount of defensive changes we had to make this season it is not surprising. We are also missing mings, who is exceptional at defending set pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 So, does a free kick coach work on both the attacking and defending of free kicks? I somehow thought McPhee only dealt with attacking. And those have improved. But are the defending free kicks part of his responsibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted March 18 VT Supporter Share Posted March 18 7 hours ago, DJBOB said: Per fbref - We've given up 8 goals from dead balls - tied for last with Luton, Forest, and Sheffield. And remember that Luton are equally prolific at attacking set pieces but pants at defending them as well so this idea that because we're good at attacking set pieces means we should be good at defending them doesn't really hold water. In counter-point, we are second in the league at scoring from set pieces with 7 - again tied with Luton, Tottenham, and you guess it - West Ham. Arsenal lead with a staggering 15. Christ, the Arsenal game is going g to be one to watch from behind the sofa then 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 29 minutes ago, one_ian_taylor said: Christ, the Arsenal game is going g to be one to watch from behind the sofa then Well we managed ok in the first game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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