Leon Bailey

[Villa87]

52 minutes ago, abdulaziz1 said:

I think he can be used much better on the left side. Hopefully he starts there next games. Especially with Ings.

Definitely this. He is incredibly frustrating but could be more dangerous on the left - would mean he doesn’t constantly do the same trick over and over in cutting back inside. 

[Marka Ragnos]

Players have slumps and more often than not, they need to play through them, and it's hard for players and supporters alike, but there are no shortcuts. Often they get to the other side, sometimes they don't. That reality should an expectation thoroughly baked into the transfer of any elite new Villa player.

Look at Marcus Rashford. 20+ goals a year for two years, then a measly 5 (with injury only partly to explain that) -- and now back on top. He had some very, very low points at United, and endless online and Manure fan abuse. A lot of supporters were frustrated. There was no real sign his slump was ever going to end.

Bailey is a winger. He's doing just fine for Villa, in that position. We need more a centre forward and attacking midfielder to complement him. Sure, he can improve, and ultimately I hope he will grow as a player, but he's probably among the top 50 wingers in the entire world right now. The negativity was understandable after Stevenage, etc., and I'd like us to have more options, but he's a young player. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[VillanousOne]

I think we are moving way from individuals and moments of magic and to a team orientated way of playing that means not everyone has to have 9/10 performances, but together we grind out some results.

Bailey has no Prem league pedigree and is still young, injuries really hampered his career with us, but he has shown real quality at times, as well as a lot of frustrating attributes that Emery will coach out of him to a degree.

No 30 mil winger is ever going to be consistently awesome, same with Buendia, he was a big fish in a very sh*tty pond, I think he will get better under Emery but we have to be realistic with our expectations and we need some more attacking players to take some of the pressure off these two, aswell as Coutinho justifying his wages.

 

[Brumstopdogs]

 

[Keener window-cleaner]

Did I see it right that we played more of a 4-2-3-1 this time, with Buendia as the no 10 (or perhaps the second striker in a 4-4-2?). Anyway it seemed like Bailey played more out to the right this time. Didn't he play on the wing, but to the left, the last game he was amazing in the Danks-game? Hopefully he can be played out wide from now on, seems to be his best position and comes best to his right there. 

[Tom13]

Undoubtedly frustrating, but also exciting and can win you games.

He's also a very likeable character.

Rooting for him.

[gwi1890]

12 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

Did I see it right that we played more of a 4-2-3-1 this time, with Buendia as the no 10 (or perhaps the second striker in a 4-4-2?). Anyway it seemed like Bailey played more out to the right this time. Didn't he play on the wing, but to the left, the last game he was amazing in the Danks-game? Hopefully he can be played out wide from now on, seems to be his best position and comes best to his right there. 

Was a 4-4-2 at times then a 4-4-1-1 and sometimes 3 at the back. Buendia sometimes played as a striker and also dropped deep. And yes Bailey played wide mainly  . The shape changed so often in transition defence and attack It’s almost pointless putting formations out there pre match. Rigid formation is a thing of the past.

[Delphinho123]

1 hour ago, Tom13 said:

Undoubtedly frustrating, but also exciting and can win you games.

He's also a very likeable character.

Rooting for him.

I am too actually. As much as I think he's been poor, even very poor at times, he has something about him. He can beat a man and he's reasonably quick. I think his finishing is his best attribute. He is fairly deadly in and around the 18yrd box (Wolves aside).

He just needs to cut out the poor performances. I know we're supposed to expect inconsistency from wingers but this isn't a case of him playing well once every 3 matches. He's playing well and then following it up with 5/6 bad games. 

He's a starter in our best XI at the moment. I don't expect that to be the case for long though unless he can put in good performances on a more regular basis. 

 

[Tom13]

3 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I am too actually. As much as I think he's been poor, even very poor at times, he has something about him. He can beat a man and he's reasonably quick. I think his finishing is his best attribute. He is fairly deadly in and around the 18yrd box (Wolves aside).

He just needs to cut out the poor performances. I know we're supposed to expect inconsistency from wingers but this isn't a case of him playing well once every 3 matches. He's playing well and then following it up with 5/6 bad games. 

He's a starter in our best XI at the moment. I don't expect that to be the case for long though unless he can put in good performances on a more regular basis.

Yeah, you can say it's difficult to find consistent wingers, and it is. But if he improves his decision making, which let's face it, is quite poor at the moment, that would be a significant improvement straight away. Really hope he can do that, but we'll see.

[DCJonah]

Let's face it, if he was more consistent then he'd be at a top 4 club. 

I guess we just have to take the rough with the smooth. 

After Stevenage I really thought he might be on a downward spiral but it shows a lot about his character that he could perform well the next game. 

Very happy for him. 

[Keener window-cleaner]

10 hours ago, gwi1890 said:

Rigid formation is a thing of the past.

[gwi1890]

5 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

Exactly 

[allani]

10 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

I am too actually. As much as I think he's been poor, even very poor at times, he has something about him. He can beat a man and he's reasonably quick. I think his finishing is his best attribute. He is fairly deadly in and around the 18yrd box (Wolves aside).

He just needs to cut out the poor performances. I know we're supposed to expect inconsistency from wingers but this isn't a case of him playing well once every 3 matches. He's playing well and then following it up with 5/6 bad games. 

He's a starter in our best XI at the moment. I don't expect that to be the case for long though unless he can put in good performances on a more regular basis. 

 

I think if we sign another ball-playing midfielder we will see a lot more from our attacking players.  The issue they've all had is that they've been receiving the ball too deep, with too little space and are having to try and manufacture too much.  If we get another midfielder who can play the pretty triangles with Kamara and Luiz then our attacking players are likely to start receiving the ball in the opposition half rather than our half, with fewer people marking them and with more support / options.  Bailey in a 1 on 1 is a frightening prospect for a defender - the trouble comes when he's being closed down by 2 or 3 players (not unreasonably).  I think we'll score a lot of goals like our first v Leeds - win the ball deep in our own half, make two intelligent passes (not hoof it long), attack the opposition with speed and bang it's in the back of the net.  It might take a couple more intricate passes to suck in the oppostion DCM / defenders but finding and making space for us to attack with quick, skillful players looks like a great option for us and Bailey fits that pretty well.  Of course there will be times when the opposition just drop deep and invite us onto them - which is when we need to have a Plan B and be able to find out ways of creating chances when there is no space to attack at speed.  In some ways this starts to play into the hands of a player like Ings - his pace becomes less of an issue, it's all about trying to find that one ball that he can get on the end of and stick away.  To me it also seems to explain why Duran Duran has come up as an option - looks like he has lots of speed but also appears to have the ability to muscle his way onto a cross in the box and put his head in where it hurts.  If we can just get Ollie to understand how to read the game in the opposition box we'd be sorted.

[Rustibrooks]

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Rustibrooks

[CVByrne]

10 minutes ago, Rustibrooks said:

 Good interview, confirmed that him and Gerrard didn’t see eye to eye but still wanted to play here. 

Well Gerrard wanted him to play as a narrow 10 basically taking his best gifts away from him which are his speed and his dribbling. I think Bailey operating from RM when we have 2 players up top he will be in his element. 

You have to have sympathy for him, he joined to play as a winger / wide forward in a 4 3 3 or 4 2 3 1 system and was plagued by injury. He only managed 700 PL mins all last season so not even 8 full games out of 38. Not to mention Gerrard, trying to shoehorn him into a terrible system. 

This is really his first proper PL season and only now does he have a proper coach (who improves players) to help him. As a winger he will always be inconsistent that comes with the role but if we are getting double figure goal contributions from him per season then we're getting a good output. 

I think he has a better chance to succeed than Buendia imo. 

[HKP90]

There is a cracking player in there somewhere, but he needs to up his goal contributions/finishing, or as the last post says, drop deeper into midfield. I can't see that in the short term though, especially if we don't get another striker in, as we'll need as much potency from our forward line as we can. 

[OutByEaster?]

I don't think there's a natural fit for him in the current system as a deeper player - I'm not sure he can play that position that Ramsey and Buendia are being asked to play, where they flit between a wider role and a number 10 position depending on play - especially since they're also asked to drop into full back positions when we go with that six man line at the back to hold games.

He's currently playing somewhere between a forward and a winger, starts games as a striker next to Watkins but has licence to drift out wide and come in with Cash not playing as far forward as the full back on the other side and allowing him that space.

I think it's a position that suits him reasonably well, and he's being given some freedom on it to do the things he's good at, even though it's not quite the natural wider position he'd like in a 4-3-3.

I think he's having a positive impact on games, he's making things happen, and even when things aren't working out for him, he's disruptive, he forces defences to work on controlling him. 

 

[CVByrne]

24 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't think there's a natural fit for him in the current system as a deeper player - I'm not sure he can play that position that Ramsey and Buendia are being asked to play, where they flit between a wider role and a number 10 position depending on play - especially since they're also asked to drop into full back positions when we go with that six man line at the back to hold games.

He's currently playing somewhere between a forward and a winger, starts games as a striker next to Watkins but has licence to drift out wide and come in with Cash not playing as far forward as the full back on the other side and allowing him that space.

I think it's a position that suits him reasonably well, and he's being given some freedom on it to do the things he's good at, even though it's not quite the natural wider position he'd like in a 4-3-3.

I think he's having a positive impact on games, he's making things happen, and even when things aren't working out for him, he's disruptive, he forces defences to work on controlling him. 

 

I disagree. I think we're skewed in our thinking for two reasons. Firstly Emery has been in charge mostly for difficult games. Man U, Brighton, Liverpool, Spurs. Also Emery is working from the players we've got. Emery seems to want to set us up the way he did at Villareal and the Moreno signing further points to that. So up top he wants a Striker and a wide forward combination. In midfield he wants two 6s (one defensive one creative) and 8 and a winger 7/11 type. Then he has an attacking LB behind the 8 and a defensive RB come CB behind the attacking winger. 

The squad that Emery inherited had two strikers Watkins / Ings and one winger / wide forward. So Emery plays with one striker and the only wide forward  / winger we have up top. So Watkins Bailey. Emery has said he needs another winger in the squad so Deloufeu / Danjuma type links. I think if we sign one we'll see the system Emery wants and Bailey will move to RM with JJ off the left. 

In this set up, we almost become a 4 2 3 1 / 4 3 3  in attack as the LM moves into a 10 or attacking 8 one forward moves to a winger and the RM moves forward to be the other winger. It's the fluid attack. I think we'll see Bailey more from RM later this season and I'm keen to see how we set up at home to lower ranked sides when we've made a couple more signings (hopefully). 

I think Watkins is adaptable enough that if we signed Dembele we are more a JJ Kamara Luiz, Watkins Dembele Bailey in attack and JJ Kamara Luiz Bailey, Watkins Dembele in the 442 block 

In summary, I think we need to sign the right player to allow Bailey to play RM consistently ahead of a defensive RB

Edited January 21, 2023 by CVByrne

[OutByEaster?]

12 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Emery seems to want to set us up the way he did at Villareal and the Moreno signing further points to that. So up top he wants a Striker and a wide forward combination. In midfield he wants two 6s (one defensive one creative) and 8 and a winger 7/11 type. Then he has an attacking LB behind the 8 and a defensive RB come CB behind the attacking winger.

I think I agree on a lot of this, with the exception the right hand side (and therefore Bailey).

The striker/wide forward combo of Bailey and Watkins are where we are at the moment, with the attacking left back and the more defensive right back in Moreno and (currently) Cash. I think the defensive full back allows the space for the wide forward and suits Bailey there.

Where I think we differ is in the more forward midfield two - both in what they are now, and what it is he intends.

I'm not sure I understand the description you give above as when I read it, it comes out

----------------------------GK-----------------------------

-------RB-------------CB----------------CB-------------

-----------------DM----------------DM-----------------

WF&7/11-----------------------------8------------LB

---------------------------CF------------------------------

I don't see how you can have the right sided of the two more forward midfielders playing as a winger, and also have a wide forward playing out there as a winger - they'd be in the same spot.

I think we'll be more:

----------------------------GK-----------------------------

----RB-------------CB----------------CB---------------

-----------------DM----------------DM-----------------

--------------------8-----------------8-----------------LB

-----WF------------------CF-----------------------------

I think Bailey is pretty well suited for the WF role in that formation, or in the one you've described, but I think we also need the second pair of midfielders centrally.

That said, I think we're only really disagreeing on one position!

I think we're looking for more wing options because, as you've said, Bailey is the only one we've got and he doesn't have a great record on injuries.

 

 

[CVByrne]

18 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think I agree on a lot of this, with the exception the right hand side (and therefore Bailey).

The striker/wide forward combo of Bailey and Watkins are where we are at the moment, with the attacking left back and the more defensive right back in Moreno and (currently) Cash. I think the defensive full back allows the space for the wide forward and suits Bailey there.

Where I think we differ is in the more forward midfield two - both in what they are now, and what it is he intends.

I'm not sure I understand the description you give above as when I read it, it comes out

----------------------------GK-----------------------------

-------RB-------------CB----------------CB-------------

-----------------DM----------------DM-----------------

WF&7/11-----------------------------8------------LB

---------------------------CF------------------------------

I don't see how you can have the right sided of the two more forward midfielders playing as a winger, and also have a wide forward playing out there as a winger - they'd be in the same spot.

I think we'll be more:

----------------------------GK-----------------------------

----RB-------------CB----------------CB---------------

-----------------DM----------------DM-----------------

--------------------8-----------------8-----------------LB

-----WF------------------CF-----------------------------

I think Bailey is pretty well suited for the WF role in that formation, or in the one you've described, but I think we also need the second pair of midfielders centrally.

That said, I think we're only really disagreeing on one position!

I think we're looking for more wing options because, as you've said, Bailey is the only one we've got and he doesn't have a great record on injuries.

 

 

I agree with you on the fact there is an open question on the LM and RM roles and probably RB too. Especially as the demands of the PL are different and this might be an area where Emery tweaks from what he had at Villareal.

As to what I think he might do is a 442 block transitions to a 433 in possession then with the 8 moving into the space centrally to open up the space for the LB to get down to make a 235 in attack.

----------------------------GK-----------------------------

-------RB-------------CB----------------CB----------LB

------------DM----------------DM-------------8--------

-----7/11--------------CF------------WF-----------

to a

----------------------------GK-----------------------------

------------------CB----------------CB-----------------

---------RB--------------DM----------------DM-----

7/11--------CF----------WF----------8--------LB

 

So in this system I think Bailey in that 7/11 role with the defensive RB behind him would fit perfectly. If JJ operated on the other side we have the players to carry the ball forward and both carry a goal threat. JJ and Bailey are good at finishing chances especially at edge of the box. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by CVByrne