The Wingers

[Delphinho123]

I thought I'd start a topic on this as there seems to be a lot of chat recently about this area of the pitch and how we've struggled with it. 
Let's take Grealish out of the equation a minute because I think it's fair to say that whilst he's brilliant on the left, he was probably only moved there in the first place to mask our deficiencies out wide. He's also a world class player so he'd be brilliant in any position. 

I class our 'genuine' wingers as El Ghazi, Trezeguet and Traore. For me, none of them are good enough to start in this division. I''d argue that they're not good enough for any team in this division, let alone one with aspirations to break into the top 6. @Tomaszk put it brilliantly when he said that you could drop Trezeguet into a league 2 side and he'd fit right in quality wise. 

It's an area of great concern for the team at the minute because we seem devoid of creativity or any real quality in the final third. Our wingers are supposed to bring this to the side and they're not good enough to do it. Let me ask you this, would we be any worse off starting Cash and Targett as our wide players with Elmo and Taylor behind them? 

Of the three, Traore is probably the best but he should be a squad player at best next season and I feel our priority in the summer needs to be to bring in two quality wingers. If it costs the club 80m for these two players, then so be it. We really need to move both Trezeguet and El Ghazi on in the summer and whilst we won't get big money, they should still command a fee which should go towards their replacements. We haven't signed a decent wide player in ages and it's infuriating. 

UTV

[villa89]

We need to buy two new really good wingers, that would allow us to move Grealish to the middle and use Traoré as an impact sub. Send Ben Ghazi and Hassan to the glue factory. 

[MaVilla]

the only two wide players in our squad, who are fit for purpose, imo are Grealish & Traore.

Grealish is obviously class, Traore is a player i think good enough to be one of 4 players vying for the two wing positions.

so basically, we need 2 new wingers in the summer, but we also need a number 8/10 and a number 6, our midfield and wide area's need some serious work in the transfer window.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

I thought I'd start a topic on this as there seems to be a lot of chat recently about this area of the pitch and how we've struggled with it. 
Let's take Grealish out of the equation a minute because I think it's fair to say that whilst he's brilliant on the left, he was probably only moved there in the first place to mask our deficiencies out wide. He's also a world class player so he'd be brilliant in any position. 

I class our 'genuine' wingers as El Ghazi, Trezeguet and Traore. For me, none of them are good enough to start in this division. I''d argue that they're not good enough for any team in this division, let alone one with aspirations to break into the top 6. @Tomaszk put it brilliantly when he said that you could drop Trezeguet into a league 2 side and he'd fit right in quality wise. 

It's an area of great concern for the team at the minute because we seem devoid of creativity or any real quality in the final third. Our wingers are supposed to bring this to the side and they're not good enough to do it. Let me ask you this, would we be any worse off starting Cash and Targett as our wide players with Elmo and Taylor behind them? 

Of the three, Traore is probably the best but he should be a squad player at best next season and I feel our priority in the summer needs to be to bring in two quality wingers. If it costs the club 80m for these two players, then so be it. We really need to move both Trezeguet and El Ghazi on in the summer and whilst we won't get big money, they should still command a fee which should go towards their replacements. We haven't signed a decent wide player in ages and it's infuriating. 

UTV

I agree.

But in no way do I want to distract from what you say, except for one point you raised,I couldn't resist it.... but Jack wouldn't be brilliant as a CDM and that is the centre of my frustration....we keep signing the same kind of player, who in some cases is no better than what we already have.....but its horses for courses, we need to sign players to do a specific job.....not an average joe who is available.

getting back to the wingers the 3 are different in some ways and yet all the same in other ways.....and in the most obvious way the same, none can dominate the position or put the fear of god in to the opposition.

[danceoftheshamen]

For me Elghazi and Traore are both potentially good but most of the time, apart from the very odd game (i'd suggest about 1 in 6 for Elghazi and 1 in 4 for Traore), do not have anywhere near enough good moments in games. Traore is very odd as he can be brilliant on the ball but also does the most crazy things which cost us goals.  I could not believe one occasion against Spurs when he inexplicably booted the ball straight out for a corner from a harmless situation when he had loads of time & space to turn and maybe start an attack... the Sky Sports commentators were just as unimpressed btw. He seems to do this kind of odd play regularly when facing our goal out on the right wing. Whether there is a lack of communication letting him know he's in space or something who knows but he seems to panic and be scared to turn with the ball. Thinking about it maybe he's been coached to only play it that way in our half? He did keep giving it away in those positions in his first few games as i remember but it's one of a multitude of ways we seem to struggle to create anything at present.

As for Trez well i'm afraid he offers nothing apart from nuisance value and the odd rare goal really and you need so much more than that at this level. It's a shame as i quite like all of them but as has been said they lack true pace, have a usually poor crossing ability and seldom get past their man either. As for shooting ability well please don't start me on that! Trez has hexagonal feet clearly, Traore seems to lack power but has better accuracy and Elghazi has an incredible ability to aim at the keeper from any position 9 times out of 10. None can head the ball either! So yes, i agree we deffo need at least two in the summer.

Another thing we need is a new set piece taker. One who offers more to the general game than Hourihane did.

[Stratvillan]

This is my criticism of Smith. We are set up to play with 2 wingers and none of them are particularly good. Is this Smith's fault for persisting with them? But then again, we cant play two up top because we only have Ollie and Keinan!

[DCJonah]

24 minutes ago, Stratvillan said:

This is my criticism of Smith. We are set up to play with 2 wingers and none of them are particularly good. Is this Smith's fault for persisting with them? But then again, we cant play two up top because we only have Ollie and Keinan!

I think it really shows the limitations of the squad, once Jack goes. 

Wingers are a desperate need for the summer. Number 1 priority IMO. 

Trez needs to be done as a villa player. Traore is good enough but can't be the main source of creativity. He's a great back up alternative when Jack is on the pitch. El Ghazi should be nothing but back up and maybe off the bench when struggling for a goal. 

Whoever we get, I was someone with pace. 

[Stratvillan]

I'd have loved dan james tbh. But he's not leaving manure.

[nick76]

I think we need to be careful, we arent playing with wingers, the term maybe better as playing with inside forwards, who are really neither a winger or striker.  I wouldnt call Mane or Salah a winger and nor Ronaldo now.

I also dont agree with the below from @Delphinho123 on the below quote, I think he was put there, and a large amount of fans also wanted it at the time, because it allowed Jack to be more in the danger areas to cause problems because he wasnt so much when in midfield and since his assist and goals have significantly increased along with scaring the crap out of opposition defenders which allows others to benefit.  So I think that's his best position.

Quote

I think it's fair to say that whilst he's brilliant on the left, he was probably only moved there in the first place to mask our deficiencies out wide

The rest I agree with but I would buy a CAM and Right Winger (Right inside forward) first then add another versatile inside forward.

I would love some pace and trickery/creativity on that right side 

[tomav84]

Traore is alright bit I'd prefer him as an impact sub rather than a starter

[Delphinho123]

9 hours ago, nick76 said:

I think we need to be careful, we arent playing with wingers, the term maybe better as playing with inside forwards, who are really neither a winger or striker.  I wouldnt call Mane or Salah a winger and nor Ronaldo now.

I also dont agree with the below from @Delphinho123 on the below quote, I think he was put there, and a large amount of fans also wanted it at the time, because it allowed Jack to be more in the danger areas to cause problems because he wasnt so much when in midfield and since his assist and goals have significantly increased along with scaring the crap out of opposition defenders which allows others to benefit.  So I think that's his best position.

The rest I agree with but I would buy a CAM and Right Winger (Right inside forward) first then add another versatile inside forward.

I would love some pace and trickery/creativity on that right side 

I’d also be fine with a CAM and a Right Inside forward. It doesn’t bother me that Jack plays on the left. 

We definitely need two though, whether it be two wide players or like you say, a CAM and RW. 

[OutByEaster?]

I think for next season we could really do with someone who is a huge threat down the right hand side, someone that draws attention away from Jack down the left and gives defences a lot to think about - some pace would be nice too. 

We've got JPB and Barry both coming through from the U23's so there are prospects available if we have emergencies - so I think we can afford to be quite bold in thinking about which of the Trezeguet, El Ghazi and Traore we want to keep. 

In terms of value Trezeguet will fetch most due to his profile in Egypt and I think we could eight figures for him if we were to let him go.

The key though is to get in that player down the right that can change the dynamic and the focus of the team, we need to throw everything at that this summer.

 

[thabucks]

Posted this in the transfer thread - more relevant here...

 

Two shouts for RW - Mohammed Daramy (who Lange wil know all about) and Noni Madueke - who before today knew nothing of and now but he has been performing brilliantly for PSV 

Left wing Nicolás González from Stuggart https://www.90min.com/posts/who-is-nicolas-gonzalez-scout-report-stuttgart-tottenham-juventus

  Quote

On paper, Gonzalez is billed as a left winger, but he's a player who can't really be limited to one position. It's not uncommon to see the 22-year-old pop up on the right wing, but he's done some of his best work as a central striker over the past few seasons.

His versatility stems from the broad nature of his skill set. Out wide, Gonzalez is a speed demon who loves taking defenders on in one-on-one situations - he averaged close to eight dribbles per 90 minutes in the 2. Bundesliga.

As a central creator, he boasts great positional skills and is capable of finding space between the lines. He's also blessed with a real predatory instinct which allows him to convert chances at an above-average rate.

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[YouUnastanFren]

Traore

He seems to be getting a bad rap but I really think his quality is very evident with the ball. I think it gets overlooked that he signed off the back of 6 months without kicking a ball after half a season of playing RWB which I think we can all agree is not going to be his best position.

So far he has 5 goals and 3 assists in 1521 minutes (17ish lots of 90 minutes). That's a goal or assist nearly every other game. For someone starting from such a low fitness base (he looked knackered on his debut after about 20 minutes) I think that's a decent return.

I might be slightly swayed by how much I enjoy watching his outrageous bits of skill but with a summer off and then a full preseason I'm sure we'll see a much more complete Traore next season. With Grealish, Watkins and a new AM he'll thrive imo.

AEG

Streakiest, most confidence based player I can currently think of in any team. Often makes the wrong decision with the ball and shoots more than the NYPD but at least provides some amount of goal threat.

Scored 4 penalties and 2 from open play but no assists in about 900 minutes. Without the penalties his numbers don't look great but he seems to be the only decent penalty taker we have. For the money Villa paid (and the sentimental value of his Playoff final goal) I'm happy with him as a backup option for LW for now.

Trezeguet

Pre covid his workrate stood out, since Jan though it hasn't really looked at the same level. Puts pressure on opposition players but the amount of excellent chances he misses is outrageous.

0 goals, 1 assist in 11.5 games worth of minutes. You could put a sleeping baby in the opposition net when he's got the ball. Of all players at all clubs in the PL yet to score this season he has the highest xG by far. His assist was a header from a choreographed set piece routine as well iirc.

He helped save us last season with 3 goals in the last 4 games but the more we see of him the more that seems like a miracle with hindsight. Not really good enough to get regular minutes in the PL imho.

Signings

Ideally we'd sign a skillful, fast, dynamic winger with a rocket of a shot. Someone like Rashica but that actually is capable of negotiating his exit from his current club.

I would very much like to see what Lange, Smith and co have in store for us. The 4 permanent signings in the summer have been excellent and Sanson looks good too.

[sne]

Grealish excluded we are still in a situation that our best winger is likely to be the one who starts on the bench and comes on as a sub. No matter who it happens to be in any given game. Obviously fresh legs will be a big advantage against tired heads and feet so no surprise since we lack quality in this position.

But we badly need a higher quality wide player who can perform on at least a 7.5/10 level match in and match out. Once again RW is right near the top when it comes to priorities this summer.

[DCJonah]

I hope we spend the most amount of money on this position in the summer. 

I'd be inclined to move Jack to a 10 and spend big on a top class LW. 

[MaVilla]

10 minutes ago, sne said:

Grealish excluded we are still in a situation that our best winger is likely to be the one who starts on the bench and comes on as a sub. No matter who it happens to be in any given game. Obviously fresh legs will be a big advantage against tired heads and feet so no surprise since we lack quality in this position.

But we badly need a higher quality wide player who can perform on at least a 7.5/10 level match in and match out. Once again RW is right near the top when it comes to priorities this summer.

this, we need Grealish, Traore and one other top level winger to compete for the two wide slots, then Trez and Ghazi can compete for the final slot.

Personally, if we had the money i would want 2 new wingers, but not sure if that would hinder our purchasing power elsewhere in the team, which is also badly needed.

[MaVilla]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I hope we spend the most amount of money on this position in the summer. 

I'd be inclined to move Jack to a 10 and spend big on a top class LW. 

well, i agree we need a top level AM and right winger in the summer, so that could either be Jack as 10 and 2 new wingers, or Jack as left wing and a new number 10 and right winger.

any way we cut it, i agree we need 2-3 new players in those forward positions.

[DCJonah]

Just now, MaVilla said:

well, i agree we need a top level AM and right winger in the summer, so that could either be Jack as 10 and 2 new wingers, or Jack as left wing and a new number 10 and right winger.

any way we cut it, i agree we need 2-3 new players in those forward positions.

Absolutely. 

I think the club know this as well. With Barkley no longer an option, I'll be amazed if we don't address it this summer. 

[MaVilla]

4 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Absolutely. 

I think the club know this as well. With Barkley no longer an option, I'll be amazed if we don't address it this summer. 

yeah, but i hope we buy a top level of player rather than a development/take a punt player, we really need a couple of high level purchases in those positions.