Team shape, tactics and personnel

[TRO]

5 hours ago, Pinebro said:

I disagree.

I hope we keep playing out from the back as much as possible.

By kicking it long you are handing over the initiative to the opponent.

All teams who dominate possession takes a lot of risk. Some times your high line will get beat but as been said many times the pros far outweighs the cons.

I think we are slightly at cross purposes.....I am not looking for us to drop the highline....you are right, kicking it long does yield the initiative, if you don't have an aerial beast, to win it.

I will be looking for us to deal with the highline better.....There are options, that UE can employ, to make it more difficult for the opposition to exploit.

You are right....all teams concede goals, ( you won't stop that) the key here though, is how easy or difficult you make it....We are not particulalry well equipped in a foot race, against pacy forwards.

Teams who win things make it so hard to score against....that is usually the backdrop, that a good attacking team has in their make up.

I would also like to point out, that while our game is about playing out from the back ( and that won't change) Emi still launches the odd long ball......its the element of surprise, that catches out opponents.

The pro's only out weigh the cons, when you win.

I want winning football, however that manifests itself....I suspect UE has the same view.

Edited August 1, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

5 hours ago, Pinebro said:

I disagree.

I hope we keep playing out from the back as much as possible.

By kicking it long you are handing over the initiative to the opponent.

All teams who dominate possession takes a lot of risk. Some times your high line will get beat but as been said many times the pros far outweighs the cons.

Sure, but thats the thing, it depends how often and how easy you concede, before you can say the Pros out weigh the Cons.....Albeit I would like to think so, too.

If its far easier for the opposition to score, but more difficult for us.....eventually the tide will turn and draws become defeats.

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by TRO

[duke313]

Nice analysis.

Particularly interesting about the use of the three centre backs.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

On 31/07/2023 at 13:36, TRO said:

He has a lot of balancing to do.....not all decisions are as clear cut as we think and for that reason he will make mistakes....Pep makes mistakes.

He will make mistakes, its inevitable.....but he will correct them, and work on them.

We aren't Man U , Man City or Chelsea, where balancing book is the least of our worries, and we can just sign 2 or 3 other top keeps for lols.

Expecting us to change our whole XI is unreasonable as well.

Too much change, too soon, can be derailing.

We already own Olsen, so whilst I get the concern, and have them myself, all we can do is trust the club, and UNTIL we can get a better backup keeper, we simply have to hope Unai Emery's attempt at man management and working on him reaps benefits.

Destroying his confidence by slating him, then having to rely on him would be of no benefit, he already seems a nervous wreck at times.

[Jas10]

 

[AvfcRigo82]

14 hours ago, skarroki said:

I think there's 7 players in our squad now that could be considered good enough for the champions league and several others that are young and hungry enough to reach that kind of level.

Martinez, Moreno, Torres, Carlos, Kamara, Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey, Diaby & possibly Archer if he can do in the PL what he did for Boro in the Ch.

[Dale]

Just now, AvfcRigo82 said:

Martinez, Moreno, Torres, Carlos, Kamara, Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey, Diaby & possibly Archer if he can do in the PL what he did for Boro in the Ch.

Find it quite interesting that you've omitted Mings/Konsa who have been absolutely solid under Unai and more progressive than they were before. Given injury, Carlos is far from a sure thing. 

[AvfcRigo82]

6 minutes ago, Dale said:

Find it quite interesting that you've omitted Mings/Konsa who have been absolutely solid under Unai and more progressive than they were before. Given injury, Carlos is far from a sure thing. 

Those were the first that came to the top of my head. I dare say there is also claim for Konsa and Mings in there fo sure.

I agree about Carlos. His inclusion is because he was of that pedigree when we signed him and I believe he will return to that level again now he is over his injury.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by AvfcRigo82

[lexicon]

11 hours ago, Jas10 said:

 

 

Two things really jump out at me:

1) Diaby fits in perfectly 

2) Archer needs to watch Watkins here and learn to do what he does. 

[skarroki]

1 hour ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Martinez, Moreno, Torres, Carlos, Kamara, Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey, Diaby & possibly Archer if he can do in the PL what he did for Boro in the Ch.

The ones I highlighted are the ones I was thinking of, plus Watkins. 

I think McGinn could get there, and a few others like the ones you mentioned and then there's players like Digne, Coutinho, Bailey, Buendia and Tielemans that were all sought after by champions league clubs in the past and have that ability within themselves.  I'm not sure we can ever get that potential back for a variety of reasons but I'm sure Emery will try. 

[Jas10]

 

[Tubby]

Is all this debate on the high line still on-going?

League form since UE:

25 games; 15 wins, 4 draws, 6 losses, 40 GF 26 GA

11 of the goals against, came in a three game streak. We also had 9 clean sheets during the 25 games.

A reminder, these stats include the transition period for UE to get his ideas across.

We have added players that improve the spine of the team and that are likely to contribute to more goals scored and less conceded.

The benefits of the high line are definitely worth the risk, as is trusting UE to do his thing.

 

[Powehi]

I find it interesting that Emery is not being as ruthless as some expected with Olsen and Chambers, and believes he can get more out of them instead of spending money on replacement GK and RB, contrary to what most fans believe should happen.

For me, it's a big call as, with four competitions on the table, they should get games. It will be a test of his management. But if anyone can do it, Unai can do it.

[punkiller1981]

2 hours ago, Powehi said:

I find it interesting that Emery is not being as ruthless as some expected with Olsen and Chambers, and believes he can get more out of them instead of spending money on replacement GK and RB, contrary to what most fans believe should happen.

For me, it's a big call as, with four competitions on the table, they should get games. It will be a test of his management. But if anyone can do it, Unai can do it.

I think he can point to his success at the likes of Sevilla and Villarreal where he didn’t spend huge amounts of money but improved the teams and some very average players as evidence he can make even the seemingly unimprovable a bit better although with Olson that is a big ask

[CVByrne]

12 hours ago, Jas10 said:

 

As many of us on here have said, and predicted he likes 3 CBs and a "Right Back, but thinking like a CB" basically exactly how he played with Foyth at Villareal. 

Defend as a 4, build up with a 3. I still think we'll see Mings in as the RCB in a few games with Konsa at RB and that means he'll be the CB of a back 3 in possession and when defending turnover possession in transition. 

I still think Pau as an inverted full back might work at some point in future (as in play 4 CBs like City) Pau joins Kamara in midfield and leave a back 3 of Mings, Carlos, Konsa. Means a front three of Philogene, Watkins, Diaby

[CVByrne]

5 hours ago, Tubby said:

The benefits of the high line are definitely worth the risk, as is trusting UE to do his thing.

I don't think it's a debate tbh, Liverpool have been sensational with it for years nearly winning 3 League titles and making 3 CL finals. It lives and dies on the intensity of the press, the recovery pace of the CBs, the quality of the sweeper keeper and the organisation and timing of the back line.

[CVByrne]

3 hours ago, Powehi said:

I find it interesting that Emery is not being as ruthless as some expected with Olsen and Chambers, and believes he can get more out of them instead of spending money on replacement GK and RB, contrary to what most fans believe should happen.

For me, it's a big call as, with four competitions on the table, they should get games. It will be a test of his management. But if anyone can do it, Unai can do it.

There are always positions we can improve, it's just of question of if that is worth improving within financial constraints. Chambers is a vastly experienced and has played numerous PL games at CDM, RB and CB. He's got plenty of European experience and seems to be a good pro. Having a versatile player like that in the squad is very useful and I think he will be on the bench nearly every week. As we have Cash and Konsa for RB we are covered.

Olsen then, if we signed a new GK we would want to move Olsen on otherwise he's just wasted wages really as 3rd GK. So we then need to see what market there is for 2nd GKs as nobody is coming in thinking they will be ahead of Martinez. So get a 2nd keeper that's improvement on Olsen, find a way to move Olsen on and then still it would be a financial outlay

[sidcow]

I just said in the Lazio match thread, how do you pick a team out of this? I know we've lots of games and there will be lots of rotation but I just have no idea what our Premier League starting team is? Zero idea. I don't know how Emery does it. 

We're going to have one hell of a strong bench. For different reasons both teams today totally and utterly decimated the third best team in Italy. 5 or 6 nil would have flattered them. 

And in all this Ramsey hasn't kicked a ball yet. 

It's so exciting, I don't envy Emery. 

[Made In Aston]

10 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I just said in the Lazio match thread, how do you pick a team out of this? I know we've lots of games and there will be lots of rotation but I just have no idea what our Premier League starting team is? Zero idea. I don't know how Emery does it. 

We're going to have one hell of a strong bench. For different reasons both teams today totally and utterly decimated the third best team in Italy. 5 or 6 nil would have flattered them. 

And in all this Ramsey hasn't kicked a ball yet. 

It's so exciting, I don't envy Emery. 

Yes we made last season’s Serie A runners up look like a championship side. This season is going to be special! I've got to a stage under Emery that I don't really care what personnel and tactics he uses, as I know whatever system and players he employs will be the best one for that particular game. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Made In Aston

[DJBOB]

10 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I just said in the Lazio match thread, how do you pick a team out of this? I know we've lots of games and there will be lots of rotation but I just have no idea what our Premier League starting team is? Zero idea. I don't know how Emery does it. 

We're going to have one hell of a strong bench. For different reasons both teams today totally and utterly decimated the third best team in Italy. 5 or 6 nil would have flattered them. 

And in all this Ramsey hasn't kicked a ball yet. 

It's so exciting, I don't envy Emery. 

I think the recruitment has been smart in that regard. With Mings/Konsa/Pau/Diego - we can play a variety of different CB combos depending on injury and rotation. Two left footers and two right footers.

Digne and Moreno when he returns from injury covers LB. Pau has already been used as an auxiliary LB. Cash is the only one I think needs a push replacement but Chambers can cover CB/RB/CDM if needed.

Then you have Luiz/Kamara/Tielemans/Donk/McGinn/Chambers in the double pivot.

In the attacking half space spots you have Diaby/JJ/Buendia/McGinn

In the winger spot you have Bailey/Diaby/Philogene

At CF you have Watkins/Archer/Duran

On paper - I'm only really concerned about RB, winger and CF. I think there's a steep drop off from Watkins and question marks over the winger positions. I can see why they want to continue recruiting another winger/striker type that can play out wide and in the half space.

Edited August 3, 2023 by DJBOB