CVByrne Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 33 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said: Small question: Would someone explain to me what it means to "spread the play," particularly for a midfielder? Heard it recently and don't understand. Usually means spreading the play out wide. Using all of the pitch. So if the play is to right of the pitch a player can "spread the play" by getting the ball out of that area of the pitch to area with fewer opposition players. Usually on the other side of the pitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KangarooVillan Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 37 minutes ago, TRO said: I agree with the frustration, I share it. But I can rarely think of a time, going to VP where I agreed with every selection, under umpteen managers......I can count on one hand the managers who picked the players, I fancied, in total. He obviously see's something in Phil, like we all have.....but right now his form has deserted him.....Emi is wrestling with a niggle, and on Saturdays display, he has to play, his industry and pugnaciousness, is crucial to the team. Managers have a much wider, set of criteria to manage, we have to trust them to do their job. I think Emi has played himself back in.....but 90 odd minutes, is what he must find to convince the manager......I know Phil must too. Thoughts if Buendia doesn’t start this week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 Just now, KangarooVillan said: Thoughts if Buendia doesn’t start this week? A sackable offence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said: Thoughts if Buendia doesn’t start this week? I am sure will be another one of his mystery injuries that allows him to play at full force as a sub only 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KangarooVillan Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, AshVilla said: A sackable offence? Head shaveable offence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 I think even if Bailey plays we should keep the split strikers formation and diamond midfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted August 15, 2022 Author Share Posted August 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Marka Ragnos said: Small question: Would someone explain to me what it means to "spread the play," particularly for a midfielder? Heard it recently and don't understand. McGinn's version of spread the play. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 56 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said: Thoughts if Buendia doesn’t start this week? disappointment....but I''ll feel like that if Chambers doesn't play. Our team is some way away from picking itself, such is the balance and consistency of it. so nothing surprises me anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 2 hours ago, TRO said: Did you think he come to play for us, as opposed to manage us? We was pinching ourselves to think, his favourite player, was coming to us.....It was a profile changer.....his favourite player was OUR favourite player when he was scoring against Man U, not Long ago. I agree that Emi is more pugnacious and he changed the game, on Saturday.....but Emi Cost £30 odd mill and Phil c£17 mill.....so we need some perspective here.....we have 2 very good No 10's who we can rotate, when it suits, when was the last time we had that luxury. You apply tactics to suit the squad you have.....and IMO The first team still has plenty of room for improvement.....That Midfield on Saturday cost us £2.5 mill.......its a bit much to think we can expect European football with an Engine room to cost that......sure there are mitigating circumstances, but that is the facts. I think we overrate this team and there is sure to be some disappointed faces at seasons end......unless we bring in some further reinforcements, not for cover....First Teamers. Odd how as our squad improves your expectations get lower. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted August 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 15, 2022 2 hours ago, DCJonah said: Odd how as our squad improves your expectations get lower. So far this season is playing out like a perfect mirror of last season. We lost on the opening day away to a newly promoted side and then beat a struggling lower midtable team at home. It's very interesting to go back to some threads mid-August 2021 and see how expectations were much higher and who held them. Keep in mind we'd just lost our generational talent and had a disastrous preseason, whereas this year we had a near spotless preseason and had everyone fit and raring to go. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calcifer Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 2 hours ago, DCJonah said: Odd how as our squad improves your expectations get lower. Not really, 2 additions to the squad from last season, one is now out for the season! So the squad has not really improved massively, going to have the same defence as last season, that was some pretty car crash tv! My expectations were low, anything above 10th is a bonus, and that still stands stands! Can't really see us dipping into the market for another defender so Mings and Chambers is the obvious choice, but Gerrard with stick with Konsa... that really worked last season (and vs Bournemouth!!) Boubs is an upgrade for sure, but our squad is not good enough for us to be challenging the top 7 unless we bring in more quality, 1 or 2 more injuries and we are down to kids/bomb squad players! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 32 minutes ago, Keyblade said: So far this season is playing out like a perfect mirror of last season. We lost on the opening day away to a newly promoted side and then beat a struggling lower midtable team at home. It's very interesting to go back to some threads mid-August 2021 and see how expectations were much higher and who held them. Keep in mind we'd just lost our generational talent and had a disastrous preseason, whereas this year we had a near spotless preseason and had everyone fit and raring to go. It's not interesting, it's absolutely hilarious. I don't know why people are like this, but it's very very funny. What is there to gain? Can you not just...watch and give honest opinions? Utterly bizarre. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 35 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: It's not interesting, it's absolutely hilarious. I don't know why people are like this, but it's very very funny. What is there to gain? Can you not just...watch and give honest opinions? Utterly bizarre. Must be exhausting to always have to contort reality so that it fits in with your original position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 The thing with the 2 strikers that we play is that it's very close to the 2 10s that he wanted to play straight away. Ollie is a classic striker, plays on the shoulder, stretches the play while Ings is much more of an all rounder and drops in to get involved in the build up. Ings ends up occupying one of the #10 positions a lot of the time and it seems to work better with him and Coutinho than it does with Coutinho and Buendia. Maybe that's down to the starting positions. Ings is starting high up and dropping in, where a classic 10 starts further back and pushes forward. That means Ings is dragging a CB out whereas Coutinho and Buendia are pulling CMs back. Playing them both forces teams to be more defensive which we can't break down, and we're vulnerable to a counter attack. I think its actually a pretty good system all in all for the way he wants us to play, the main issue we have is that Buendia is performing far above anything Coutinho is offering but seemingly Gerrard doesn't want to drop Coutinho. They don't really work as well together (albeit I've only seen them play a limited number of times, so there's still potential there for them), so it leaves us in a tricky situation of either not playing our best player, or not playing Phillipe Coutinho 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, weedman said: The thing with the 2 strikers that we play is that it's very close to the 2 10s that he wanted to play straight away. Ollie is a classic striker, plays on the shoulder, stretches the play while Ings is much more of an all rounder and drops in to get involved in the build up. Ings ends up occupying one of the #10 positions a lot of the time and it seems to work better with him and Coutinho than it does with Coutinho and Buendia. Maybe that's down to the starting positions. Ings is starting high up and dropping in, where a classic 10 starts further back and pushes forward. That means Ings is dragging a CB out whereas Coutinho and Buendia are pulling CMs back. Playing them both forces teams to be more defensive which we can't break down, and we're vulnerable to a counter attack. I think its actually a pretty good system all in all for the way he wants us to play, the main issue we have is that Buendia is performing far above anything Coutinho is offering but seemingly Gerrard doesn't want to drop Coutinho. They don't really work as well together (albeit I've only seen them play a limited number of times, so there's still potential there for them), so it leaves us in a tricky situation of either not playing our best player, or not playing Phillipe Coutinho He has to decide on whether he wants our forwards to focus on attacking or our midfielders - I don’t think he can have it both ways without making us overly vulnerable… I just feel the best way to get the best out of two 10s is to have a more defensively focussed midfield with only really one of them getting involved with the attackers or driving forwards while the others focus on keeping us solid, screening the defence, retaining possession and maintaining composure (their priority should be not to lose the ball or be overly risky in their play - unless they actually have the ability to back that up and can make killer passes with ease). I really don’t think we’d be under so much pressure in games where we take the lead or end up having to hold on late on. The best way to alleviate pressure from the opposition is to keep a hold of the ball and play constant short passes and maybe restrict ourselves to one, even two, touch football… We don’t have that ability, I haven’t seen is demonstrate it even once for… I don’t know how long… If we can improve ball retention and composure, it really would do wonders for our side. Instead we’re too hurried, panicked and desperate to boot the ball or send it long for someone like Ollie to chase and that’s not a reliable “strategy” and more often results in cheaply surrendering position back to the opposition - we are horrendously and excessively guilty of that and I’m really fed up of it tbh… We need more “press resistance”… McGinn is part of the problem, not the solution. He can be quite shit and clumsy on the ball and in the pass… He can’t be relied on to play that kind of role… we haven’t seen it for ages but he is best suited to be the midfielder who drives forward… I miss his pressuring and stealing of the ball in dangerous areas… it was a great asset. JJ is developing wonderfully and is the superior talent but there no reason why they can’t rotate for that role/position and stay fresh rather than burning out… I would rather the forwards/attackers be more free to express themselves and be more creative and deadly (with less focus on dropping back and searching for the ball or trying to help out in a defensive sense). A solid midfield is the way to go, we need supreme passing ability and have improved that with Kamara but he’s only one player and needs support… a bit of physicality and dominance would really really help and improve us too. We can’t have JJ and McGinn just running on and leaving him isolated and put too much of a burden/responsibility on his young shoulders… it’s something we saw too often with Luiz and was pretty unfair for a guy who is not really a traditional or outright DM. Atm, he is the best partner we have available for Kamara and, with his defensive duties reduced somewhat and aided by Bouba, I have no doubt that he would improve our passing game and also help supply our 10s more easily/consistently/quickly, allowing them to cause havoc… The problem is… SG doesn’t seem to see it that way and it’s likely that we’ll continue to shoot ourselves in the foot… Here’s hoping he makes the right alterations… another signing or two would really help. Maybe that’s what we’re waiting on?….. Edited August 16, 2022 by Jas10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 12 hours ago, calcifer said: Not really, 2 additions to the squad from last season, one is now out for the season! So the squad has not really improved massively, going to have the same defence as last season, that was some pretty car crash tv! My expectations were low, anything above 10th is a bonus, and that still stands stands! Can't really see us dipping into the market for another defender so Mings and Chambers is the obvious choice, but Gerrard with stick with Konsa... that really worked last season (and vs Bournemouth!!) Boubs is an upgrade for sure, but our squad is not good enough for us to be challenging the top 7 unless we bring in more quality, 1 or 2 more injuries and we are down to kids/bomb squad players! Our squad is a lot stronger than this time last year and is in a much better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 11 hours ago, Keyblade said: Must be exhausting to always have to contort reality so that it fits in with your original position. I think its more to do with reality, when Hyperbole, is at work. This constant drone about European Football, is like a ***** teaser. This team is not ready in its current form for European Football.....thats what prompts the lowering of expectations. Its called, different opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Our squad is a lot stronger than this time last year and is in a much better place. Granted, but similar weaknesses, still remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 8 hours ago, Jas10 said: He has to decide on whether he wants our forwards to focus on attacking or our midfielders - I don’t think he can have it both ways without making us overly vulnerable… I just feel the best way to get the best out of two 10s is to have a more defensively focussed midfield with only really one of them getting involved with the attackers or driving forwards while the others focus on keeping us solid, screening the defence, retaining possession and maintaining composure (their priority should be not to lose the ball or be overly risky in their play - unless they actually have the ability to back that up and can make killer passes with ease). I really don’t think we’d be under so much pressure in games where we take the lead or end up having to hold on late on. The best way to alleviate pressure from the opposition is to keep a hold of the ball and play constant short passes and maybe restrict ourselves to one, even two, touch football… We don’t have that ability, I haven’t seen is demonstrate it even once for… I don’t know how long… If we can improve ball retention and composure, it really would do wonders for our side. Instead we’re too hurried, panicked and desperate to boot the ball or send it long for someone like Ollie to chase and that’s not a reliable “strategy” and more often results in cheaply surrendering position back to the opposition - we are horrendously and excessively guilty of that and I’m really fed up of it tbh… We need more “press resistance”… McGinn is part of the problem, not the solution. He can be quite shit and clumsy on the ball and in the pass… He can’t be relied on to play that kind of role… we haven’t seen it for ages but he is best suited to be the midfielder who drives forward… I miss his pressuring and stealing of the ball in dangerous areas… it was a great asset. JJ is developing wonderfully and is the superior talent but there no reason why they can’t rotate for that role/position and stay fresh rather than burning out… I would rather the forwards/attackers be more free to express themselves and be more creative and deadly (with less focus on dropping back and searching for the ball or trying to help out in a defensive sense). A solid midfield is the way to go, we need supreme passing ability and have improved that with Kamara but he’s only one player and needs support… a bit of physicality and dominance would really really help and improve us too. We can’t have JJ and McGinn just running on and leaving him isolated and put too much of a burden/responsibility on his young shoulders… it’s something we saw too often with Luiz and was pretty unfair for a guy who is not really a traditional or outright DM. Atm, he is the best partner we have available for Kamara and, with his defensive duties reduced somewhat and aided by Bouba, I have no doubt that he would improve our passing game and also help supply our 10s more easily/consistently/quickly, allowing them to cause havoc… The problem is… SG doesn’t seem to see it that way and it’s likely that we’ll continue to shoot ourselves in the foot… Here’s hoping he makes the right alterations… another signing or two would really help. Maybe that’s what we’re waiting on?….. I agree, with much of that. One issue is our work "Off the Ball" both attacking and defending....in order to make effective passes someone has make intelligent runs, this doesn't happen enough....now and again sure, but that doesn't manifest cohesion. Our play can be stop, start at times, not fluent......and I agree with you, about the pressing and press resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 8 hours ago, Jas10 said: He has to decide on whether he wants our forwards to focus on attacking or our midfielders - I don’t think he can have it both ways without making us overly vulnerable… I just feel the best way to get the best out of two 10s is to have a more defensively focussed midfield with only really one of them getting involved with the attackers or driving forwards while the others focus on keeping us solid, screening the defence, retaining possession and maintaining composure (their priority should be not to lose the ball or be overly risky in their play - unless they actually have the ability to back that up and can make killer passes with ease). I really don’t think we’d be under so much pressure in games where we take the lead or end up having to hold on late on. The best way to alleviate pressure from the opposition is to keep a hold of the ball and play constant short passes and maybe restrict ourselves to one, even two, touch football… We don’t have that ability, I haven’t seen is demonstrate it even once for… I don’t know how long… If we can improve ball retention and composure, it really would do wonders for our side. Instead we’re too hurried, panicked and desperate to boot the ball or send it long for someone like Ollie to chase and that’s not a reliable “strategy” and more often results in cheaply surrendering position back to the opposition - we are horrendously and excessively guilty of that and I’m really fed up of it tbh… We need more “press resistance”… McGinn is part of the problem, not the solution. He can be quite shit and clumsy on the ball and in the pass… He can’t be relied on to play that kind of role… we haven’t seen it for ages but he is best suited to be the midfielder who drives forward… I miss his pressuring and stealing of the ball in dangerous areas… it was a great asset. JJ is developing wonderfully and is the superior talent but there no reason why they can’t rotate for that role/position and stay fresh rather than burning out… I would rather the forwards/attackers be more free to express themselves and be more creative and deadly (with less focus on dropping back and searching for the ball or trying to help out in a defensive sense). A solid midfield is the way to go, we need supreme passing ability and have improved that with Kamara but he’s only one player and needs support… a bit of physicality and dominance would really really help and improve us too. We can’t have JJ and McGinn just running on and leaving him isolated and put too much of a burden/responsibility on his young shoulders… it’s something we saw too often with Luiz and was pretty unfair for a guy who is not really a traditional or outright DM. Atm, he is the best partner we have available for Kamara and, with his defensive duties reduced somewhat and aided by Bouba, I have no doubt that he would improve our passing game and also help supply our 10s more easily/consistently/quickly, allowing them to cause havoc… The problem is… SG doesn’t seem to see it that way and it’s likely that we’ll continue to shoot ourselves in the foot… Here’s hoping he makes the right alterations… another signing or two would really help. Maybe that’s what we’re waiting on?….. The reason we don’t keep possession is the movement off the ball is slow and predictable. Secondly the distance between the defence and midfield and then the forwards is too much. The defence needs to push up by about 15 yards. During Project restart and through to January (the covid outbreak at the club) the distances were fantastic. We had the third best defence and second least chances conceded then the covid outbreak happened and also Jack got injured and it went to pot. Since then the distances have been too much hence getting overrun in midfield. Gerrard mentioned distances in his first few interviews but they’re getting wider by the looks of things. Low or Mid block or High press the team needs to stay compact from back to front. Pirlo , Zico and Busquets would struggle with our distances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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