PeterSw Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Think we'll see Chambers as DM in the next game with Luiz replacing McGinn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Just now, PeterSw said: Think we'll see Chambers as DM in the next game with Luiz replacing McGinn. Yeah that might work if we ask Luiz to take the pressure off Cash in providing the width on the right. Luiz has a better final ball than Cash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterSw Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Yeah and Luiz had some good games in his more natural position. On another note, is there a specific tactical reason for having a left-footed McGinn on the right of the midfield and right-footed Ramsey on the left? Always seems strange to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 37 minutes ago, PeterSw said: Nice post. The part about the players adapting well at the start for me is down to Nakamba. I feel that the CDM position is crucial to his tactic and Luiz just can't do it. I think if he went with a different option there (a more defensively minded player like Chambers for example) we might see the performances/results improve. Gerrard showed a bit of naivety at the weekend. He said in the presser that Hodgson was experienced and he knew him well. Surely he knew that he would dig in for 70 odd mins, wait for us to make changes to go and try to win the game and look to pick us off. His plan worked perfectly. .. But on the other hand, Gerrard had to make changes to try and win the game and ultimately, he made the wrong changes for me. Young to Cash was poor. Bailey looked too short of match fitness to bring on and chase a game. I think we'll get there eventually. I'll give him a pre-season and a transfer window but if things arn't looking better by Christmas, he could (and should) be in trouble Slight aside. I thought we were ok in the first half against Watford. Decent penalty shout and the Ings miss - but at least we threatened. The team was clapped off at HT. It all went to shite - when we rekindled the Watkins / Ings partnership. But the basic shape wasn't bad in the first 45. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterSw Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 minute ago, hippo said: It all went to shite - when we rekindled the Watkins / Ings partnership. Surely it has to be the final nail in the coffin or the Ings/Watkins front two combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, PeterSw said: Yeah and Luiz had some good games in his more natural position. On another note, is there a specific tactical reason for having a left-footed McGinn on the right of the midfield and right-footed Ramsey on the left? Always seems strange to me I believe it's because they can pass into midfield better. Also helps when shooting as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, PeterSw said: Surely it has to be the final nail in the coffin or the Ings/Watkins front two combo How many times have we said that before only for it to be resurrected like a reanimated corpse which goes on to die on the pitch again 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 watched a bit of the Spuds game on Sunday and their back 4 was in a line and protected by the DM's on pretty much every Citeh attack then you see our ragged back line that teams seem to pick off at will and it becomes quite apparent where we need to improve .. trouble is it seems our only current option to improve this is an 18 year old with zero first team experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: watched a bit of the Spuds game on Sunday and their back 4 was in a line and protected by the DM's on pretty much every Citeh attack then you see our ragged back line that teams seem to pick off at will and it becomes quite apparent where we need to improve .. trouble is it seems our only current option to improve this is an 18 year old with zero first team experience We would probably look a bit more like that if we played Man City as well. The vacant spaces lately are the result of Villa having some possession for once, trying to find a way through and getting cut open in transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 * * * * * * * * * * * Oooo....Look, Beautiful little stars everywhere. Even out wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 59 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said: Two examples of our fullbacks receiving the ball wide. We’re not hurting anyone from these positions Happened over and over against Newcastle and Watford. Either the FB recieved the ball with no options in front or they were isolated. That second photo is so damning. You don't even leave a winger that isolated. Digne has zero good options. He can't try to beat his man since if he loses the ball Watford can immediately counter through the gaping holes between him and his midfielders. Then you look at our 4 attacking players headed for the box. They are almost in a straight line. A single Watford player could mark them all if the cross even made it into the box. I have yet to see someone explain what's the point of keeping your attacking players in one 5' by 5' box. And then send your fullbacks on islands out wide without support. Liverpool don't even do this. Their fullbacks are always supported out wide by at least 2 teammates. Then they work nice little triangles til they either get someone in behind or suck the opposing team so far over it opens up the other side for an attack. All of this strikes me as Steven and his managerial team not vetting this system appropriately. This system was not ready for showtime. It needed more time in the lab, maybe at a Championship or Ligue 1 club. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 19 hours ago, AV82 said: The holes in our game must be mended to some degree before we commit to and really roll the dice on Gerrard. If he shows tactical nous with the team we have now then yes, let's push on and bring in personnel to develop his style further. However if he can't plug simple gaps like coaching Douglas to take a yellow, or having players in positions that suit them (McGinn completely wasted covering the RB position is one example) then I'd rather we go another route at the end of the season with a different coach. The players don't turn to shit over night and on paper we have a solid team. In the remaining 12 games I'm more interested in how we react collectively to the struggles we will undoubtedly face and that should shape our decision come the summer. We have a top 10 team on paper, maybe even top 8. I think we have better players than Brighton and Southampton who are both above us. Wolves I'm not so sure, but I think both teams are on a par quality-wise. Lage just has them far, far better organised out of possession. Leicester probably have a better team/squad than us and Wolves but are underachieving like us and their defence seems to be shot to pieces. If Gerrard's system ain't working he has to change it to get results. We can't finish near the bottom 3 and drop 4 or 5 places from last season. He'll have the summer to drive the change he wants and get the players to suit that, for now he has to adapt to stop us falling off a cliff. If he can't there is literally no point backing him because it tells us he is a poor manager with no plan B. I'm very interested and also concerned how the next three games go. We could probably do with winning at least 2 of them because our run after Leeds is pretty horrific given we play West Ham, Arsenal, Wolves, Spurs, Liverpool and Leicester and I would have us underdogs for all of them on current form. Of course we may pull some big wins out of nowhere and could do with the quality we've got, but we really don't want to have to be in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazmonkey Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I think there is mixture of both Gerrard getting things wrong and the some of the players not good enough, either way something does need to change. The main problem Villa have had for a number of years now, including under Smith is everything or everyone is learning on the job. Gerrard...in experience....learning on the job. Players....championship....lower league teams...all learning on the job. With the exception of Ings and Coutinho...we have a squad with little premiership experience and importantly who are the new players going to learn from.....no one. This is a key area the board have dismissed in recruitment.......yes buy new.....young players....and build them...but not a squad. We are always catching up with other team having new players every summer.....learning the league......and IMO too many like for like. Midfield has always been an issue for me and it has not been addressed but until we get basics right....we could have a world class player in the team and look distinctively average....which we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, Bazmonkey said: I think there is mixture of both Gerrard getting things wrong and the some of the players not good enough, either way something does need to change. The main problem Villa have had for a number of years now, including under Smith is everything or everyone is learning on the job. Gerrard...in experience....learning on the job. Players....championship....lower league teams...all learning on the job. With the exception of Ings and Coutinho...we have a squad with little premiership experience and importantly who are the new players going to learn from.....no one. This is a key area the board have dismissed in recruitment.......yes buy new.....young players....and build them...but not a squad. We are always catching up with other team having new players every summer.....learning the league......and IMO too many like for like. Midfield has always been an issue for me and it has not been addressed but until we get basics right....we could have a world class player in the team and look distinctively average....which we do. The inexperience isnt true though. Mings, Konsa and McGinn are pushing 100 Villa games in the Premier League. Chambers has played all his career in the top flight for Arsenal and Southampton and Digne played over 100 games for Everton. Ashley Young has about 400 Premier League games played 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazmonkey Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, Zatman said: The inexperience isnt true though. Mings, Konsa and McGinn are pushing 100 Villa games in the Premier League. Chambers has played all his career in the top flight for Arsenal and Southampton and Digne played over 100 games for Everton. Ashley Young has about 400 Premier League games played yes....but 100 odd games and who have learned from......no one...learning on the job....same mistakes each week...who is giving help to these players....wheres the guidance coming from in training.....who is helping Alf Garnett word for example....or Mcginn on positional awareness....Ramsay.....Luiz......this is the problem....Ill give you Young and how he can help the attack minded players we have...but Chambers......been a bench warmer most his career......how is he going to improve us....can one of the other players go to him for guidance????? .can he do a job..yes....but long term...squad player at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 23 minutes ago, Bazmonkey said: I think there is mixture of both Gerrard getting things wrong and the some of the players not good enough, either way something does need to change. The main problem Villa have had for a number of years now, including under Smith is everything or everyone is learning on the job. Gerrard...in experience....learning on the job. Players....championship....lower league teams...all learning on the job. With the exception of Ings and Coutinho...we have a squad with little premiership experience and importantly who are the new players going to learn from.....no one. This is a key area the board have dismissed in recruitment.......yes buy new.....young players....and build them...but not a squad. We are always catching up with other team having new players every summer.....learning the league......and IMO too many like for like. Midfield has always been an issue for me and it has not been addressed but until we get basics right....we could have a world class player in the team and look distinctively average....which we do. Agree with parts you your post, but don't fully agree with the premiership experience part. Ings and coutinho as you rightly mention have about 300 premier league games between them, Young has nearly 400 alone, digne, targett, Mings and chambers each has 100+, mcginn and Luiz are just under a 100.. That is a lot of premier league experience. We have definitely made too many changes in the past few years, but they have mostly been forced upon us. I'd much rather we build a young squad, let them gain experience together and then reap the benefits when they all peak together. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) On 20/02/2022 at 13:51, picicata said: Whilst the squad is imbalanced the manager is getting no where close to the standard out of these players that he could and part of the imbalance is caused by the formation and tactic he is imposing. We have taken on a rookie manager and we are his training ground, some accept that others don't/ won't. Its possibly true.....maybe they just can't do, what he is asking them to do. I think you are right, the imbalance is impacting on the system.....so all is at sea. but he has been with us 3 months, maybe he thinks he knows the squad, when he in fact he doesn't quite know the level of capability. I am not advocating SG et al...is blameless, I think they are looking for solutions....but maybe in this squad, they are simply not there, to take them where they want to go. When you are missing certain types of player....its a pretty tricky game of compensating a system to cover for it....I think Dean struggled with it and Now SG is. as an e.g Man City and Liverpool play without traditional centre forwards, but how many teams in the prem can do that?....but their squads are so diverse,and attributes so plentiful , they can find a system to work. Edited February 21, 2022 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 21, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 21, 2022 19 minutes ago, Chicken Field said: I'd much rather we build a young squad, let them gain experience together and then reap the benefits when they all peak together. Very much this, I think this is the only possible way to break into the top positions and stay there. FFP means you can't just buy it anymore, and gradually buying a couple here and a couple there for big money hasn't worked for a few clubs no matter how canny. To successfully get a young team together though with the right blend of a few experienced is exceptionally difficult to do and to be pretty blunt it takes very good coaching too, and so far Gerrard/Beale isn't really convincing me they are. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 20 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: Does that not sound like the problem may be with the manager, Tro? You and I both want him to do well for us, but he really needs to sort this out. We could quite easily stumble into a relegation battle the way we are playing at the moment. AB of course he has to take responsibility....but in his after match interview, he did.....he said " Its on me, and I have to get it right" Like all our fans, I am searching for for the answers too......I suspect he has over estimated what some of the players can do, and set up a system where, he has actually made things worse.....I hope he recognises this pretty quickly. as a side comment........Its one of the reasons why, I think Targett, went a bit quick, because he might have found himself back in, if SG resorts back to full backs as opposed to wing backs...even temporary. We have to rememeber here SG has a dilemma to solve, but so did Dean too...and despite contrasting system philosophies, both had the same problems......" Easy to play against" I think Leeds have a similar problem to us.....while at the same time have a completely different philosophy.....they too are "Too easy to play against" I would be a liar, if said I expected this.....but I do think, in an effort to make us better, he has made us worse. You are right, only he can sort it out.....I hope its soon, because we could so easily get dragged in to this, with teams in it, getting the better of us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, romavillan said: Very much this, I think this is the only possible way to break into the top positions and stay there. FFP means you can't just buy it anymore, and gradually buying a couple here and a couple there for big money hasn't worked for a few clubs no matter how canny. To successfully get a young team together though with the right blend of a few experienced is exceptionally difficult to do and to be pretty blunt it takes very good coaching too, and so far Gerrard/Beale isn't really convincing me they are. Yes but- 1- As a fan base we have and will never will have the patience for this. We tried to do this under Lambert in a bargain basement sort of way and a lot of the young players just lost all confidence after about a year after playing for us. 2-When said players finally come good, they will then get sold to one of the top 6 sides and we would have to start again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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