Rds1983 Posted March 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: Their owners have done a great job of promoting their club I dont think anyone would argue this. They are also using it in a great way to promote their other business interests such as the alcohol and cyber security stuff which will be helping them out. I suspect that the plan is for them to keep building up the profile of Wrexham to be a globally recognised brand (it's already been added to Fifa Sports or whatever it was), get a few promotions to League One or the Championship and then sell the club for 100 times what they paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 12 hours ago, Davkaus said: Indeed. But that's based on hindsight. Nobody thought that Bournemouth's reserve leftback was going to leave them and become a PL starting centre back with England callups within the year. Nobody thought Tammy who flopped heavily at Swansea would score for fun for us the next season. It's two examples of good signings who exceeded expectations. They were players who'd previously been unproven at a higher level. Wrexham are buying players their club shouldn't be able to afford who are experienced players proven at a higher level. I think the point is we equally benefited from signing players that were too good for the chanpionship. We can disagree on their circumstances at their respected clubs but they were too good. Tammy was banging goals in for fun and mings was a beast at cb Mullen was at Cambridge before he left for Wrexham and in good form there. But his record at tranmere and at swindon before was poor. Only at morecambe before he hit a bit of form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 8 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: I dont think anyone would argue this. They are also using it in a great way to promote their other business interests such as the alcohol and cyber security stuff which will be helping them out. I suspect that the plan is for them to keep building up the profile of Wrexham to be a globally recognised brand (it's already been added to Fifa Sports or whatever it was), get a few promotions to League One or the Championship and then sell the club for 100 times what they paid for it. Smart plan in my opinion. Why pay stupid money for a pl club when u can pay peanuts and make a massive profit getting them up 2 or 3 leagues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 12 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: I dont think anyone would argue this. They are also using it in a great way to promote their other business interests such as the alcohol and cyber security stuff which will be helping them out. I suspect that the plan is for them to keep building up the profile of Wrexham to be a globally recognised brand (it's already been added to Fifa Sports or whatever it was), get a few promotions to League One or the Championship and then sell the club for 100 times what they paid for it. It might also just be a hobby rather than a business decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted March 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Smart plan in my opinion. Why pay stupid money for a pl club when u can pay peanuts and make a massive profit getting them up 2 or 3 leagues Agreed. Reynolds has been involved in some fantastic business ventures, largely by being the popular face of the product and using his own brand to advertise it. The gin company he was involved in (think he was actually just a minority owner) sold for $600m when a few years before he was involved nobody had heard of it and it was worth fractions of that amount. He's started a trend of these types of things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted March 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, LondonLax said: It might also just be a hobby rather than a business decision? Probably a bit of both. They'll be looking to enjoy the ride but will want to make money in the longterm. Probably the same for most ownership groups, including ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_75 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Rds1983 said: Agreed. Reynolds has been involved in some fantastic business ventures, largely by being the popular face of the product and using his own brand to advertise it. The gin company he was involved in (think he was actually just a minority owner) sold for $600m when a few years before he was involved nobody had heard of it and it was worth fractions of that amount. He's started a trend of these types of things. The same gin company that also has their logos on the club's training tops/jackets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 3, 2023 4 hours ago, Rds1983 said: By buying these types of players and throwing the (relatively) huge wages around (last time I looked they had 7 or 8 of the highest paid players in the league) they are driving the 'norm' up for everyone else who wants to compete. We've seen in the top flight how 100k a week now is a fairly average wage for most clubs after the 'big 6' started paying 3 or 4 times that amount. This is happening in the lower leagues now too as wages and fees are having to shoot up in response. However the lower league clubs are all in financial difficulties and really struggling to compete. They're not just gambling their futures (like Bury did) to try and go up, they're having to do it to just stand still. Wrexham being able to throw this level of money around because they can get incredible sponsorship (i doubt TikTok would even sponsor us) is going to help lead to more lower league clubs going bust. It's a lower leagues example of City, Chelsea, or Newcastle etc but just with much better marketing so people are lapping it up and buying into it. The whole Wrexham deserve to be higher bit is nonsense too. Nobody is saying this about clubs like Oldham who are in the same league and arguably have bigger history. Is there any evidence of clubs chasing them? They'll be gone from non league next season and things will return to normal. I'd be surprised if there are other non league teams who have looked at them and thought Jesus we'd better sign a load of expensive players we can't afford because otherwise we won't compete with Wrexham. I expect they are just looking towards what they can achieve next season when Wrexham and Notts County have gone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I think the point is we equally benefited from signing players that were too good for the chanpionship. We can disagree on their circumstances at their respected clubs but they were too good. Tammy was banging goals in for fun and mings was a beast at cb Mullen was at Cambridge before he left for Wrexham and in good form there. But his record at tranmere and at swindon before was poor. Only at morecambe before he hit a bit of form. We benefited from signing good players, but they weren't too good for the Championship. Tammy Abraham was a young player making his way in the game (much like we want to see Archer sent out on loan) and Mings wasn't even playing football. On Mullin, he was League Two top scorer for a team who finished 2nd and got promoted. He then had interest from various League One and Championship clubs but went to.... National League Wrexham, instead of either staying put in League One or moving higher up the pyramid. He took two steps back. He's reportedly earning £4.5k/wk in the National League. In the same League Two season that Mullin finished top scorer, Ben Tozer was starting centre back for Cheltenham as they won the league. Again, instead of stepping up into League One, he went two steps back into the National League - reportedly on £4k/wk. If their reported wages are correct, Mullin, Tozer and Hayden (other centre back) are on £11.5k/wk. That's borderline Championship wages, let alone a team in a semi-professional league. The Aston Villa equivalent would be like us buying established players from Premier League teams pushing for Europe whilst we're in the Championship - not loans like Abraham and Mings. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted March 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 3, 2023 21 minutes ago, sidcow said: Is there any evidence of clubs chasing them? They'll be gone from non league next season and things will return to normal. I'd be surprised if there are other non league teams who have looked at them and thought Jesus we'd better sign a load of expensive players we can't afford because otherwise we won't compete with Wrexham. I expect they are just looking towards what they can achieve next season when Wrexham and Notts County have gone. They're not just impacting their League. They are convincing players to drop down from League Two or getting players who should be League One or maybe even Championship in Mullens case. Meaning teams in those leagues are also having to offer increased wages to retain/attract players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 3, 2023 18 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: They're not just impacting their League. They are convincing players to drop down from League Two or getting players who should be League One or maybe even Championship in Mullens case. Meaning teams in those leagues are also having to offer increased wages to retain/attract players. Are they? I find it hard to believe that 1 team moving up through the leagues will leave a trail of bankrupt teams trying to compete with them in their wake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 23 minutes ago, bobzy said: We benefited from signing good players, but they weren't too good for the Championship. Tammy Abraham was a young player making his way in the game (much like we want to see Archer sent out on loan) and Mings wasn't even playing football. On Mullin, he was League Two top scorer for a team who finished 2nd and got promoted. He then had interest from various League One and Championship clubs but went to.... National League Wrexham, instead of either staying put in League One or moving higher up the pyramid. He took two steps back. He's reportedly earning £4.5k/wk in the National League. In the same League Two season that Mullin finished top scorer, Ben Tozer was starting centre back for Cheltenham as they won the league. Again, instead of stepping up into League One, he went two steps back into the National League - reportedly on £4k/wk. If their reported wages are correct, Mullin, Tozer and Hayden (other centre back) are on £11.5k/wk. That's borderline Championship wages, let alone a team in a semi-professional league. The Aston Villa equivalent would be like us buying established players from Premier League teams pushing for Europe whilst we're in the Championship - not loans like Abraham and Mings. Id agree with you if it never resulted in us getting promoted. Remember when we signed bolaise? We thought it was a massive coup at the time as he was very good for everton. We took advantage of our position which we were entitled to do like wrexham are. As for mullins he wasnt good before aigning for cambridge his goals was nowhere near the level it was there. He is probably a league two striker at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Id agree with you if it never resulted in us getting promoted. Remember when we signed bolaise? We thought it was a massive coup at the time as he was very good for everton. We took advantage of our position which we were entitled to do like wrexham are. As for mullins he wasnt good before aigning for cambridge his goals was nowhere near the level it was there. He is probably a league two striker at best Again you dont get it. We weren't signing starting players from top 8-10 teams. Thats the issue with Wrexham, they are signing starting players from 30 positions above them in the table. The manager has managed in the Championship and a League Cup final Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 50 minutes ago, Zatman said: Again you dont get it. We weren't signing starting players from top 8-10 teams. Thats the issue with Wrexham, they are signing starting players from 30 positions above them in the table. The manager has managed in the Championship and a League Cup final Its not about "getting it" i get all your points but i just dont agree with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Again you dont get it. We weren't signing starting players from top 8-10 teams. Thats the issue with Wrexham, they are signing starting players from 30 positions above them in the table. The manager has managed in the Championship and a League Cup final I agree with Dem, it’s just different degrees of the same problem. That some clubs have more resources than others. We were happy that we could blow through loads of money on our quest for promotion without getting into financial trouble while the other championship clubs looked on enviously It is a bit rich to to now complain about Wrexham taking advantage of their owners wealth and profile. Football in the U.K. operates on a capitalist model, entirely different from franchise sports in the US with their salary caps and draft picks etc. For better or for worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 11 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I agree with Dem, it’s just different degrees of the same problem. That some clubs have more resources than others. We were happy that we could blow through loads of money on our quest for promotion without getting into financial trouble while the other championship clubs looked on enviously It is a bit rich to to now complain about Wrexham taking advantage of their owners wealth and profile. Football in the U.K. operates on a capitalist model, entirely different from franchise sports in the US with their salary caps and draft picks etc. For better or for worse. Nobody is complaining about it. They're just stating that Wrexham should absolutely walk the National League as their squad is filled with players who are a league or two 'better' than where they are. And when they get promoted, they'll fly through League Two as well. Our position was similar in terms of being able to spend massive amounts, but we didn't attract players that literally no other club in the league could attract. Paul Mullin was linked to Blackburn, Preston, other North West clubs before signing for Wrexham. Who did we sign in the Championship who was both a Premier League player and also being linked to teams ranked higher than their current club? There was no one. It was loan deals and ridiculous purchases like Ross McCormack and Scott Hogan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 11 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I agree with Dem, it’s just different degrees of the same problem. That some clubs have more resources than others. We were happy that we could blow through loads of money on our quest for promotion without getting into financial trouble while the other championship clubs looked on enviously It is a bit rich to to now complain about Wrexham taking advantage of their owners wealth and profile. Football in the U.K. operates on a capitalist model, entirely different from franchise sports in the US with their salary caps and draft picks etc. For better or for worse. Thats fair enough and I have said it before good luck to Wrexham and the fans My issue is the fairytale vibe that comes across because they are 2 likeable guys and the media and outsiders have bought into it. Hoffenheim for example threw a lot of money(a lot more)in a similar situation to get from the regional leagues to the Bundesliga but were already hated along the way by top flight opposition because they had a cold hearted businessman owner and not Hollywood celebrities 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Its not about "getting it" i get all your points but i just dont agree with them It's ridiculous arguing with you sometimes. You can't just "not agree" with statements like "We weren't signing starting players from top 8-10 teams." and "they are signing starting players from 30 positions above them in the table", they're demonstrable matters of fact Edited March 3, 2023 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 33 minutes ago, Zatman said: Thats fair enough and I have said it before good luck to Wrexham and the fans My issue is the fairytale vibe that comes across because they are 2 likeable guys and the media and outsiders have bought into it. Hoffenheim for example threw a lot of money(a lot more)in a similar situation to get from the regional leagues to the Bundesliga but were already hated along the way by top flight opposition because they had a cold hearted businessman owner and not Hollywood celebrities Sure, but then surely that is a sign of their talent at their jobs? They are showmen and they are doing it well. They make an entertaining product and it’s selling well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 58 minutes ago, Zatman said: Thats fair enough and I have said it before good luck to Wrexham and the fans My issue is the fairytale vibe that comes across because they are 2 likeable guys and the media and outsiders have bought into it. Hoffenheim for example threw a lot of money(a lot more)in a similar situation to get from the regional leagues to the Bundesliga but were already hated along the way by top flight opposition because they had a cold hearted businessman owner and not Hollywood celebrities Wrexham are a far bigger club there Hoffenheim were before their takeover. It's not comparable to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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