villa4europe Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Our wage bill is €223m a year?! So let's say with the players out on loan we have a 30 man squad That's an average of €7.4m per year per player, or an average of €143k a week, or £122k per week, or a complete load of utter bollocks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 4 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Our wage bill is €223m a year?! So let's say with the players out on loan we have a 30 man squad That's an average of €7.4m per year per player, or an average of €143k a week, or £122k per week, or a complete load of utter bollocks Entire clubs wage bill for all staff including players. Our player ownly wage bill is €172m (see page 31 of the uefa presentation) Also all income from loans comes in form of fees and that's under transfer income so our wage bill includes players out on Loan essentially 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 So the Gerrard debacle has cost us royally in terms of FFP - cheers Christian you bellend. Buying him out of his contract, wages and then payoff cost us a ridiculous amount. Also splurging a ridiculous sum on Critchley to replace Beale then firing him a few months later. And then Digne on £160k pw… Coutihno was worth the gamble IMO and took one hell of a pay cut to join us so will forgive that move. I also guess paying Purslow off, hiring Heck & Monchi also has cost us millions. Still cannot see how we could’ve lost £138million though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CVByrne Posted February 19 Popular Post Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, allani said: I do think that this (even if it is close to being true) paints a very different spin on some of the "crises" that the club are facing and how the landscape might have changed significantly in the last two years - especially when you take into consideration that we seem to be more at risk of missing the UEFA rules than the PL rules (which wouldn't have been such a big deal 2 seasons ago when we were in the bottom half of the table) and the fact that the Everton ruling has set a pretty strong precedence in terms of the severity of any breach AND that trying to appeal that the "final straw" was an infrastructure payment issue, will hold no water if you've been negligent / remiss elsewhere. (1) Firstly, it offers a different perspective on why a costly rebrand might not be the best thing to be doing at the moment. I think this also might explain why the new badge we think we are getting will look so similar to the Lerner badge (i.e. it's easier to live with two similar badges in the short term so we can take more time to rebrand the stadium, etc). (2) It offers a very different view on why reducing capacity in the next two seasons could have a very big impact on our ability to meet our short-term FFP commitments (even if long term increasing capacity will have significant advantages). I don't quite know how we balance that off because the case for increasing capacity closer to our rivals seems pretty solid. But we can't afford to risk 10 point penalties or selling key players to balance the difference. (3) It does offer a possible reason why some of the communications around (1) and (2) might have been a little less than fully transparent. I don't think we'd want the club to be saying that the rebrand and redevelopment projects were off because they might cause us to breach FFP. (4) It would also raise question marks about the performance of the club in certain areas and explain why we might be clearing out some departments and bringing in people that our senior team have worked with before. (Note that this doesn't address allegations around possible breaches of employment law - but maybe does imply that (some) people who've been asked to leave might well have been asked to do so because our numbers are so adrift.) (5) Maybe it also explains why we've had a bit of "radio silence" deliberate or not from the club - because actually the attention is on other matters. I'm not saying that any of these are definitely true by the way but it does imply that maybe there are factors that the club have been focussed on that maybe they don't want to be discussing too openly / transparently at the moment. I can certainly see why Heck might be spending more time trying to line up more deals rather than liasing with fan groups about reverting to something similar to the last badge we had. It does also suggest that there's something wrong with FFP when most independent views are that we've generally bought pretty well, strengthened our team pretty sensibly (lots of people talk about how cheap some of our key players were compared to their current value) and that we've done brilliantly well on the pitch. I would be amazed if anyone genuinely believes that our owners are acting rashly or beyond their means and that Barcelona of the pinnacle of what a well-run club should look like. I think I am getting more of a picture too about the club. Especially how Purslow ran it. He was focussed on being very public, being involved in the transfer negotiations, announcements etc. He wanted Gerrard as it would bring more cameras a attention on Villa. I think the North Stand redevelopment was about Euro 28 and he might have thought he could get his name on the stand too possibly. I think Danny Ings even was a Purslow signing so he could keep fans happy about selling Jack. All of these things happened yet the club floundered commercially and the decision making was not at the standard required. I think Heck has come in and looked properly at the finances, looked at income per fan, looked at what getting 8000 extra seats bring in terms of increased revenue and the 2 year gap in income we would have. He and the club know the transition to tighter financial regulations at a time where we had a €138m loss the previous season (and they know the accounts in real time so have knows the financial situation since last spring). He see's a badge which is run of the mill and circular doesn't have a brand that can market the club to new fans and new audiences. I also think that you don't go telling people you are making decisions based on the clubs financial situation. It weakens our hand in all negotiations when selling players. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 My take on FFP and Villa is this - bearing in mind I have no fu****g idea how it works. Firstly, I don’t think we’re in *great* danger of failing it. There just isn’t any way we sign Rogers if we’re borderline and fearing punishment. The counter argument to this of course is, ‘Rogers is Ramsey’s replacement when we need to sell in the Summer’ - I don’t buy it. Secondly, I don’t think the people running this club would gamble the long term future of it by making really, really bad decisions. I have to believe this - albeit the wages of some of our players is shocking. (The Gerrard era was catastrophic). Thirdly, and I think this is the most important part of it all. All of our problems go away if we qualify for the CL because the revenue will plug a massive gap. We may not even choose to sign anyone and I still think we’ll have a very competitive squad next season. CL is everything this year. If we fail to qualify, looking at the numbers being thrown around, we may need to sell somebody like Luiz or Ramsey just to balance the books. But what do I know. This season is massive. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) I think were going to need to go again in the summer. Some players might not be the same after their ACL injuries. It's nice to see were already rumoured to be sounding out free transfers like Hermoso from Atletico. I agree CL football is vital for our progress FFP wise. Edited February 19 by AshVilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 19 Moderator Share Posted February 19 posts moved. Please use the general ffp thread for general ffp discussions. This one is for Villa specific FFP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post allani Posted February 19 Popular Post Share Posted February 19 3 hours ago, CVByrne said: I think I am getting more of a picture too about the club. Especially how Purslow ran it. He was focussed on being very public, being involved in the transfer negotiations, announcements etc. He wanted Gerrard as it would bring more cameras a attention on Villa. I think the North Stand redevelopment was about Euro 28 and he might have thought he could get his name on the stand too possibly. I think Danny Ings even was a Purslow signing so he could keep fans happy about selling Jack. All of these things happened yet the club floundered commercially and the decision making was not at the standard required. I think Heck has come in and looked properly at the finances, looked at income per fan, looked at what getting 8000 extra seats bring in terms of increased revenue and the 2 year gap in income we would have. He and the club know the transition to tighter financial regulations at a time where we had a €138m loss the previous season (and they know the accounts in real time so have knows the financial situation since last spring). He see's a badge which is run of the mill and circular doesn't have a brand that can market the club to new fans and new audiences. I also think that you don't go telling people you are making decisions based on the clubs financial situation. It weakens our hand in all negotiations when selling players. Not just buying or selling players. You've also got to think about whether a major international brand would be happy signing an expensive, multi-year sponsorship deal with a club that have just said they might be at risk of either selling players or getting a 10 point penalty the next season. I've said from the start that there are all kinds of reasons why Heck might not be as transparent as many people would like for all kinds of legal, commercial, confidentiality reasons. It's a difficult balance between building good relations with the fans and not compromising deals / the strength of the club's bargaining position. I would almost always sacrifice a bit of the former for the latter. Especially when NSWE, Unai and Monchi have done so much in terms of building up credit in the bank with the fans. Actions speak louder than words. I don't think he's got enough credit for the Atairos and Adidas deals which are more significant to the immediate / long term future of the club than a new badge. Heck is probably never going to be hugely popular (as he will be the person signing of ticket price rises, etc) but I suspect he's probably pretty thick-skinned and that he'll be more interested in ensuring that he's doing what NSWE have paid him to do which is to basically balance the books better. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 6 hours ago, allani said: I do think that this (even if it is close to being true) paints a very different spin on some of the "crises" that the club are facing and how the landscape might have changed significantly in the last two years - especially when you take into consideration that we seem to be more at risk of missing the UEFA rules than the PL rules (which wouldn't have been such a big deal 2 seasons ago when we were in the bottom half of the table) and the fact that the Everton ruling has set a pretty strong precedence in terms of the severity of any breach AND that trying to appeal that the "final straw" was an infrastructure payment issue, will hold no water if you've been negligent / remiss elsewhere. (1) Firstly, it offers a different perspective on why a costly rebrand might not be the best thing to be doing at the moment. I think this also might explain why the new badge we think we are getting will look so similar to the Lerner badge (i.e. it's easier to live with two similar badges in the short term so we can take more time to rebrand the stadium, etc). (2) It offers a very different view on why reducing capacity in the next two seasons could have a very big impact on our ability to meet our short-term FFP commitments (even if long term increasing capacity will have significant advantages). I don't quite know how we balance that off because the case for increasing capacity closer to our rivals seems pretty solid. But we can't afford to risk 10 point penalties or selling key players to balance the difference. (3) It does offer a possible reason why some of the communications around (1) and (2) might have been a little less than fully transparent. I don't think we'd want the club to be saying that the rebrand and redevelopment projects were off because they might cause us to breach FFP. (4) It would also raise question marks about the performance of the club in certain areas and explain why we might be clearing out some departments and bringing in people that our senior team have worked with before. (Note that this doesn't address allegations around possible breaches of employment law - but maybe does imply that (some) people who've been asked to leave might well have been asked to do so because our numbers are so adrift.) (5) Maybe it also explains why we've had a bit of "radio silence" deliberate or not from the club - because actually the attention is on other matters. I'm not saying that any of these are definitely true by the way but it does imply that maybe there are factors that the club have been focussed on that maybe they don't want to be discussing too openly / transparently at the moment. I can certainly see why Heck might be spending more time trying to line up more deals rather than liasing with fan groups about reverting to something similar to the last badge we had. It does also suggest that there's something wrong with FFP when most independent views are that we've generally bought pretty well, strengthened our team pretty sensibly (lots of people talk about how cheap some of our key players were compared to their current value) and that we've done brilliantly well on the pitch. I would be amazed if anyone genuinely believes that our owners are acting rashly or beyond their means and that Barcelona of the pinnacle of what a well-run club should look like. Wait... So are you telling me that this whole time, the owners, board and all the highly qualified people they have hired to run/sort the club have known more about the reasoning for some of the recent decisions they've made... Than fans on VT and Twitter... I am truly flabbergasted 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Wait... So are you telling me that this whole time, the owners, board and all the highly qualified people they have hired to run/sort the club have known more about the reasoning for some of the recent decisions they've made... Than fans on VT and Twitter... I am truly flabbergasted He still drew the new new badge in MS Paint 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Saw this on X and I have to balance what someone says on social media against two successful businessmen that have a firm grip on running Aston Villa FC. I have no reason to doubt the owners, and I am as certain as I can be that we are fine with FFP. That does not mean that in the summer if Emery wants to buy we may have to sell one or two of the crown jewels to fund it, and I'm fine with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) I think the system is broken but I also think as a club we have never been great managing our finances. Under the MON years we racked up a huge wage bill predominantly on very average players without increasing our revenue substantially. Our wage bill today is apparently higher than the likes of Spurs and Newcastle which is not good considering their revenue is higher than ours (in Tottenham's case much higher). Gerrard giving Carlos and Coutinho £100K+ a week and paying over £40m on transfer fees for them was bat sh*t crazy (Digne too maybe but I think he was a player we needed as Targett was nowhere near good enough). Personally I'm somewhat confused by this idea that we have to make Champions League this season to ease our financial situation. Of course making that competition brings financial benefits but we shouldn't be in a position where we have to sell key players if we don't qualify, Emery has already said himself that there are seven teams better than us so presumably we expected to finish 8th this season. Therefore, if we're having to sell big players for missing out on 4th we have planned our finances badly somewhere. Being brutally honest, I'd be gutted if we had to sell Luiz or Martinez or Ramsey and it would really put me off what football has become, given that Man City and Chelsea never faced such restrictions when they came into money. The key for us is drastically increasing that revenue, it's obvious, it's increased from £178 to £215m in the latest set of accounts but this is still far too low as the Sky 6 teams bring in over twice that or even three times that amount. Even West Ham bring in more than us. We need to get it to well over £300m before we have a chance to spend close to what the top teams do, building a new 60,000 stadium would help in this regard and getting more fans coming to games from places like Asia who will spend lots of money on merchandise. Edited February 20 by Leeroy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 10 hours ago, AshVilla said: I think were going to need to go again in the summer. Some players might not be the same after their ACL injuries. It's nice to see were already rumoured to be sounding out free transfers like Hermoso from Atletico. I agree CL football is vital for our progress FFP wise. I think it's likely at least one of them won't be after an ACL, it's a nightmare injury. I just hope we have good insurance, not some 'Big Bert's ACL cover' worth £50 that Wyness took out as it came with a free tube of Pringles Edited February 20 by VillaJ100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 15 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said: I think it's likely at least one of them won't be after an ACL, it's a nightmare injury. I just hope we have good insurance, not some 'Big Bert's ACL cover' worth £50 that Wyness took out as it came with a free tube of Pringles What flavour Pringles? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 12 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: My take on FFP and Villa is this - bearing in mind I have no fu****g idea how it works. Firstly, I don’t think we’re in *great* danger of failing it. There just isn’t any way we sign Rogers if we’re borderline and fearing punishment. The counter argument to this of course is, ‘Rogers is Ramsey’s replacement when we need to sell in the Summer’ - I don’t buy it. Secondly, I don’t think the people running this club would gamble the long term future of it by making really, really bad decisions. I have to believe this - albeit the wages of some of our players is shocking. (The Gerrard era was catastrophic). Thirdly, and I think this is the most important part of it all. All of our problems go away if we qualify for the CL because the revenue will plug a massive gap. We may not even choose to sign anyone and I still think we’ll have a very competitive squad next season. CL is everything this year. If we fail to qualify, looking at the numbers being thrown around, we may need to sell somebody like Luiz or Ramsey just to balance the books. But what do I know. This season is massive. Christ could you imagine this place if Villa didn't sign anybody this summer? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinRichardsonsMoustache Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) I have no idea how any of this works so my first response is to get defensive, insist that we’re paying our way, and that other clubs are doing far worse things. Unfortunately, if we’re being truthful, I think this is how most fans reflect on FFP - it’s utterly unfathomable and pulling clubs over the coals for it will create so much resentment that it’ll fundamentally change how people engage with the game. Edited February 20 by KevinRichardsonsMoustache 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 hours ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said: I have no idea how any of this works so my first response is to get defensive, insist that we’re paying our way, and that other clubs are doing far worse things. Unfortunately, if we’re being truthful, I think this is how most fans reflect on FFP - it’s utterly unfathomable and pulling clubs over the goals for it will create so much resentment that it’ll fundamentally change how people engage with the game. I feel the same way. The current system means the right financial move is to sell our most talented young players and buy someone else's, and if we miss the CL this year we'll likely have to sell someone like Ramsay despite being fairly powerful financially. I don't want clubs to fold, but surely these outcomes are not what anyone involved in football wants, clubs selling their best academy kids while football ultimately becomes a battle of who can best game the FFP system. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 25 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: I feel the same way. The current system means the right financial move is to sell our most talented young players and buy someone else's, and if we miss the CL this year we'll likely have to sell someone like Ramsay despite being fairly powerful financially. I don't want clubs to fold, but surely these outcomes are not what anyone involved in football wants, clubs selling their best academy kids while football ultimately becomes a battle of who can best game the FFP system. Well it's really to sell our players and buy them back for about the same price if possible. The sell and buyback is the way forward for most of the youth who are promising. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 19/02/2024 at 11:44, cheltenham_villa said: These recently released accounts are not a huge surprise for me but they really highlight the problem with the recent fixation on FFP. Its important that we remember that FFP is about allowable LOSSES and that they are in fact that, Losses. No other business in the world carries on running in this instance. Everytime we scrap out compliance with FFP, our owners are digging deeper into their pockets. In my experience this only happens for so long before they decide to cash in and pass the baton on. They're growing their asset. How much did they buy the club for + how much cash they've invested is probably much smaller than what the club is now worth. While this continues, they'll put money in imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 21 Moderator Share Posted February 21 More posts moved to the general FFP thread. Please use this thread for Villa specific things and that one for everything else FFP related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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