Laughable Chimp Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: When Watkins playing on his own he’s just as bad this season so blaming Ings or position is only one of a bigger issue with Watkins at the moment. He’s so off form, it’s far more than just Ings impact when it happens and Ings isn’t even playing. Watkins has been mediocre this season. Ings has been terrible. I'm having Watkins any day of the week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 29 minutes ago, Don_Simon said: Said it before, will say it again. Ings should be sold and we either have faith in Archer as back up or we go out and buy a young, up and coming quality striker who is happy to be on the bench and learn his trade. Ings was a panic buy and it's impacting on Watkins massively. The common refrain is that competition for places is always a good thing. How is that any different for Ollie? I don't think his downturn has anything to do with Ings. Last year he had the best chance creator in the PL playing with him and this year he doesn't. Ollie looks like a striker who is feeding on scraps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 10 minutes ago, nick76 said: When Watkins playing on his own he’s just as bad this season so blaming Ings or position is only one of a bigger issue with Watkins at the moment. He’s so off form, it’s far more than just Ings impact when it happens and Ings isn’t even playing. No one has been brilliant this season. Horrendous preseason, losing Jack, Copa America, injuries, illness, complete change of coaching staff and new manager. If you were to bin off everyone who has ben off form there would be no-one left. Even Martinez hasn't been up to last season's standards. Given the above events, Watkins has been fine, as @stevo985 said. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: No not for me. Ings’ xG is one of the lowest in the league for forwards. He just isn’t effective in our system. Watkins is. We shouldn’t be sacrificing our best CF to accommodate Ings Whilst his xG is bad, its his xA and shot creating actions that I'm more worried about. The latter of which he is literally the lowest in the league in per 90 terms compared to other forwards.. Regardless, all these stats tell largely the same story. He is really bad at linking up with the rest of our team for whatever reason. Can't get on the end of chances and can't help create chances for his teammates as well. Watkins numbers in these areas aren't good either, but they're definitely better than Ings. Edited December 27, 2021 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said: The common refrain is that competition for places is always a good thing. How is that any different for Ollie? I don't think his downturn has anything to do with Ings. Last year he had the best chance creator in the PL playing with him and this year he doesn't. Ollie looks like a striker who is feeding on scraps. You don't think Ollie going from centre forward to being on the left to make space for Ings has impacted on him? I can't reason with that, so we'lll end it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Don_Simon said: No one has been brilliant this season. Horrendous preseason, losing Jack, Copa America, injuries, illness, complete change of coaching staff and new manager. If you were to bin off everyone who has ben off form there would be no-one left. Even Martinez hasn't been up to last season's standards. Given the above events, Watkins has been fine, as @stevo985 said. Then by your definition so has Ings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Don_Simon said: You don't think Ollie going from centre forward to being on the left to make space for Ings has impacted on him? I can't reason with that, so we'lll end it here. But even when he’s his own up front he’s been poor is the point many are making. So blaming Ings for all Watkins issues this season is just not correct. Ollie has had problems when playing on his own when Ings isn’t on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, Don_Simon said: You don't think Ollie going from centre forward to being on the left to make space for Ings has impacted on him? I can't reason with that, so we'lll end it here. Ollie has looked poor all season. He has spent the majority of his playing time as the sole striker so don't think his position has much to do with the quality of play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 Just now, Rightdm00 said: Ollie has looked poor all season. He has spent the majority of his playing time as the sole striker so don't think his position has much to do with the quality of play. So true, people keep blaming Ings is hiding the underlying problem of Ollie’s form. I love Ollie as much as the next fan but too many are hiding behind the Ings impact despite, as you said, he’s played as a sole striker a fair bit this season and still been poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 28, 2021 11 hours ago, nick76 said: Not this season he hasn’t He's been far better than Ings 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 17 hours ago, Don_Simon said: No one has been brilliant this season. Horrendous preseason, losing Jack, Copa America, injuries, illness, complete change of coaching staff and new manager. If you were to bin off everyone who has ben off form there would be no-one left. Even Martinez hasn't been up to last season's standards. Given the above events, Watkins has been fine, as @stevo985 said. McGinn, Ramsey, Cash and Luiz have all improved on last season in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 8 hours ago, Stevo985 said: He's been far better than Ings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted December 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 28, 2021 8 hours ago, Stevo985 said: He's been far better than Ings So out of Ings and Watkins..... ... which one is the tallest dwarf? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 9 hours ago, Stevo985 said: He's been far better than Ings I wouldn't says far better, 5 goals in 16 don't sound great. He's dropped off from last season there's no doubting, an I'm not talking about goals scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul33 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 Buendia is the real issue IMHO ...... in terms of vision and making killer through passes, he was the new Grealish off whom both Watkins and Ings would feed. Buendia has been very ineffective and has only shown rare glimpses of the sort of support needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 Think Watkins has been a shadow of what he was last season for whatever reason. Him having a baby in September and not getting enough sleep might be part of it, him not reacting well to getting competition from Ings might be another reason. Or maybe he was playing out of his skin last season and this is his level. I have no idea but regardless it's been disappointing both in terms of scoring and in regards to pressing and work rate. Not that he's been crap but last season so much of our pressing and defending was thanks to him. As for Ings he's been even more disappointing. It may be that he needs to play 90 mins every week to be his best, but that isn't going to happen and frankly he's not earned that here. Their chemistry is non existent as a duo so for me it's one or the other and even thou not close to his best that one is Watkins atm. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I wouldn't says far better, 5 goals in 16 don't sound great. He's dropped off from last season there's no doubting, an I'm not talking about goals scored. He works far better in our system than Ings. We're handicapping our best striker to shoerhorn both him and Ings into the team We have enough wide players to not do that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I wouldn't says far better, 5 goals in 16 don't sound great. He's dropped off from last season there's no doubting, an I'm not talking about goals scored. It really isn't that bad of a goal return. Ignoring penalties, Its marginally worse than his return last season. His non-penalty goal return is 270 minutes per goal this season. Last season it was 260 minutes per goal. His always been about a 1 in 3 or so goalscorer. Meanwhile Ings is on less than 1 in 5 without pens. Its a significant difference. Edited December 28, 2021 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) This time last season he had scored six goals, and three of those had been scored in one game against Liverpool, and another two had come against Arsenal, in other words he had only scored in three Premier League games at this stage last season. Maybe he isn't quite as good this season as he was last season, but I think the gap between the two is being exaggerated, not purposely so, but I think what's changed more is less Watkins' performances and more the way people are judging him. Edited December 28, 2021 by useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 I would move Watkins up front and have Ings as one of the 10’s playing off him. Ings is more skilful and has a better football brain, but Watkins has an amazing ability to hold the ball up and press from the front. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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