Ratings & Reactions: Southampton v Villa

[AVFCDAN]

23 hours ago, thunderball said:

Our team is set up wrong, we play a defensive 5 and a DM but we have the worst defence in the league. We concede too many shots, the worst in the league, despite our defensive set up bias. We have conceded more goals from inside the box than any other team. This says we are playing too advanced. That says to me our midfield isn’t working, but what have we done about it? Oh, and we also concede more goals from set pieces than any other side. Wheres the coaching? It was a poor performance but the fundamentals aren’t there and we are easy to play against so always on the back foot.

That's bang on the money for me. 

Whether you are a Smith fan or not its very hard to defend that, I can't accept there isn't another person out there who could improve on that.

Its too late now but its going to take a minor miracle to save us now, we're just poor all over the field at the moment.

[Raver50032]

19 hours ago, TRO said:

Thanks Gra.....I have run out of likes, due to the sad situation we find ourselves in, but the plethora of reasoned responses to our plight.

A miserable thread reflecting a miserable afternoon at St Marys... But here comes TRO with my all time favourite word. Bless you TRO... brightened my mood like the Villa just can't any more.

[rjw63]

Just looked at our last eleven fixtures.

Oh dear. Not one single game you could say "yeah, that's a win".

Wet Spam last day could be a bloodbath if they need a win to stay up and don't get it.

Hang on...they're playing us...

[Vancvillan]

On 23/02/2020 at 03:47, TRO said:

my quote had no connotation attached to it....its my opinion

A connotation means there is deeper or further meaning attached to the words used. You don't get to say there's no connotation any more than you get to say "my words did not cause offence".  It's like me saying "classic Boomer reply" and then saying there's no connotation because you are a Boomer.

The splitting of fans / supporters / followers / whatever into distinct groups is a problem. It ignores the fact that everyone's relationship with the club is marked with nuance, and encourages a (frankly toxic) "better fan" narrative.  A young kid who can't afford to go to games and whose parents can't afford a Villa shirt shouldn't be made to feel like less of a supporter because of it.  You engaged in that, made a huge generalisation and think there's nothing wrong with that.  I have zero interest in trying to change your mind.

My next click is on "ignore user" - just to save you the time responding.

[TRO]

22 hours ago, Vancvillan said:

A connotation means there is deeper or further meaning attached to the words used. You don't get to say there's no connotation any more than you get to say "my words did not cause offence".  It's like me saying "classic Boomer reply" and then saying there's no connotation because you are a Boomer.

The splitting of fans / supporters / followers / whatever into distinct groups is a problem. It ignores the fact that everyone's relationship with the club is marked with nuance, and encourages a (frankly toxic) "better fan" narrative.  A young kid who can't afford to go to games and whose parents can't afford a Villa shirt shouldn't be made to feel like less of a supporter because of it.  You engaged in that, made a huge generalisation and think there's nothing wrong with that.  I have zero interest in trying to change your mind.

My next click is on "ignore user" - just to save you the time responding.

you are reading too much in to it.....and I don't need a lesson in English, to validate a point....it's just a strawman you are attempting.

anyway, you come to a ridiculous conclusion.....you manufactured the better fan interpretation, yourself.

so what is your version of the distinction between fan & supporter?...state your correction.....Oh and bye the way I didn't split them, I just answered another post the way I saw it.

Edited February 25, 2020 by TRO

[mig4villa]

On 23/02/2020 at 00:44, TRO said:

yes one goes to the games, the other just follows out of interest.

Just for clarity - If you look up the words 'Fan' and 'Supporter' in a dictionary they have effectively identical definitions. You could also use the words follower, adherent, or disciple to mean the same thing. Your Insistence they have different meanings based on actual attendance at matches is your own invention and i'm afraid factually incorrect. 

[StefanAVFC]

A fan and a supporter are the same thing.

Being able to go to the games doesn't make you a better fan, or more of a fan, than someone who can't.

You can't hide that your statement caused offence by saying 'it's just my opinion'. You are more than welcome to have an opinion, and people are more welcome to challenge said opinion if they disagree.

[bielesibub]

[Raver50032]

A 'disciple of Aston Villa...' Never thought I could reach such heady heights. Every day is a school day... and henceforth I shall be known as 'Raver, Disciple of Aston Villa...'

[TRO]

10 hours ago, mig4villa said:

Just for clarity - If you look up the words 'Fan' and 'Supporter' in a dictionary they have effectively identical definitions. You could also use the words follower, adherent, or disciple to mean the same thing. Your Insistence they have different meanings based on actual attendance at matches is your own invention and i'm afraid factually incorrect. 

but there wasn't an insistence...its was just my opinion (responded to anothers post on the matter)and I have heard it said elsewhere....but why chase down my opinion, just give yours.

I have no insistence, it was just a suggested opinion to anothers post, who asked the question.

but many things can vary slightly from a dictionary,depending on context and when interpreted in a colloquial manner.....and thats all it is my interpretation.....like you have yours, which is fine.

Maybe  it would have been more appropriate for you to answer your version of the distinction between fan & Supporter to the original poster, as opposed to trying to trump mine....its my opinion mate, nothing more nothing less.

Edited February 25, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

9 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

A fan and a supporter are the same thing.

Being able to go to the games doesn't make you a better fan, or more of a fan, than someone who can't.

You can't hide that your statement caused offence by saying 'it's just my opinion'. You are more than welcome to have an opinion, and people are more welcome to challenge said opinion if they disagree.

Is it not more appropriate to give your own opinion, when a genuine question is being asked, rather than chase down someone elses?....if you disagree with me fine.....give him your version.

It can easily be presented in contrast to mine , if thats what the challenger wants to acheive.

I did actually write in my original answer....."unless someone else has a better description".....that was an invitation, for other posters to give him their version.

I think that is testimony to me  saying, its just my version......and no one has mentioned the word " better fan" or implied it ,thats your interpretation/invention....mine was merely a suggested description put forward.

I would be most surprised if my quote caused offence, because that was a million miles from the intention, but i cannot legislate for folk getting the wrong end of the stick.

They can challenge my opinion, but when I already invited that challenge in my original response to the poster who asked "is there  a difference".....I would have thought it more appropriate to answer that poster, with there version, than chase down mine.

just my opinion once again.

anyway we are off topic......lets  get back on.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by TRO

[StefanAVFC]

If you can't see how 'only people who go to the games can be called fans' could be construed as offensive and disrespectful then I can't help you any further.

[briny_ear]

I used to go to a lot of Villa matches when I was younger. I can’t get to hardly any now for a variety of reasons.I suspect a lot of VT-ers are in the same boat.

But wherever I am and whatever I am doing, I sweat with the team every minute of every match and feel the pain if we lose and joy if we win.

No-one’s going to tell me I am not a fan. (If that’s better than being a supporter - I lost track of the argument.)

Edited February 25, 2020 by briny_ear

[mig4villa]

17 hours ago, TRO said:

but there wasn't an insistence...its was just my opinion (responded to anothers post on the matter)and I have heard it said elsewhere....but why chase down my opinion, just give yours.

I have no insistence, it was just a suggested opinion to anothers post, who asked the question.

but many things can vary slightly from a dictionary,depending on context and when interpreted in a colloquial manner.....and thats all it is my interpretation.....like you have yours, which is fine.

Maybe  it would have been more appropriate for you to answer your version of the distinction between fan & Supporter to the original poster, as opposed to trying to trump mine....its my opinion mate, nothing more nothing less.

Mate, there is no distinction. Words have clearly laid down meanings. Fan and supporter mean exactly the same thing in the context of a sport or team. We don't get to have our own opinions on the definition of  words, just like we don't get an opinion  on the FACT that 2 + 2 = 4, or  that  Copper is a metal. (well we do - but any other opinions than the known facts are demonstrably wrong - sorry)  UTV

Edited February 26, 2020 by mig4villa
Attempted to make original post less confrontational by using 'We' instead of 'you'

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

We were to Southampton what Newcastle were to us, but worse

[TRO]

7 hours ago, mig4villa said:

Mate, there is no distinction. Words have clearly laid down meanings. Fan and supporter mean exactly the same thing in the context of a sport or team. We don't get to have our own opinions on the definition of  words, just like we don't get an opinion  on the FACT that 2 + 2 = 4, or  that  Copper is a metal. (well we do - but any other opinions than the known facts are demonstrably wrong - sorry)  UTV

I think you are wrong.....there is a plethora of widely held views, if you care to research.....and there is varying opinions on it....so to say there is no difference is wide of the mark.

A sample of one Internet writers interpretation below Highlighted, similar to mine, but I accept there are many interpretations of it......There is no fact on this, I understand your claim, but you are wrong....check it out.....Dictionaries are very specific, and misleading in this case IMO.... we are talking football here.....fan is derived from Fanatic, fanatic and supporter is not the same.

Quote:

Yes, there is a simple difference. Anyone can be a fan.

A supporter is someone who SUPPORTS their team. I.e. pays to see matches. Or buys a season ticket.

........Which is what,I more or less Implied.

but we are off topic mate and I won't reply again.....have it your way if you wish.

Edited February 26, 2020 by TRO

[sne]

So people who pays money to watch their team on the telly or the internet are fans or supporters?

And if you live at home and your parents pay for the subscription or if it's free where you live you are a fan or supporter?

How many games per season to be a fan vs supporter? 

Very capitalist way of looking at things, never knew that Villa and Scientology had this much in common.

[StefanAVFC]

Mental gymnastics. Truly.

[Stevo985]

@TRO you're talking absolute shit and everybody knows it.

Take it on the chin, admit you said a stupid thing, and let it go.

[sne]

26 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

@TRO you're talking absolute shit and everybody knows it.

Take it on the chin, admit you said a stupid thing, and let it go.

I don't know man, I'm learning stuff here.

For almost 40 years, since I was 5 I've live under the illusion I was an Aston Villa supporter. Turns out I was just some lowly fan.

And if I understand it correctly it should read (financial)-supporter and (casual)-fan? 

And apparently there is no "better fan (or supporter as it turns out) implication, but there absolutely is.

Top stuff!

Edited February 27, 2020 by sne