Mazrim Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 38 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: It possibly could, and very well. Would need to see alot more " work rate " than what I saw in cameos though. However I'd have to revisit my earlier point. This would require fans to temper expectations and have patience for the " greater good ". What if it eventually turns out he actually isn't ready yet, OR it takes him time to get up to full speed, and results suffer due to guaranteeing him starts to keep him, who takes and/or gets the blame? Obviously it's the Manager who would, and probably by the same people who called for this. As @TRO says it's a difficult one, and will probably require a leap of faith from both parties IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 17 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Well it does say " Lost his trust in the club, Gerrard is working on bringing that back "... So. Yeah, but if an individual is responsible, surely you'd lose trust for that individual only rather than the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Fair play, problem is I suspect not everyone feels the same way as you do . Story of my life 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 11 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Yeah, but if an individual is responsible, surely you'd lose trust for that individual only rather than the club. Stop trying apply logic to our speculation please. Always one person trying to ruin the conversation with sanity ffs. " Are you not entertained?!!! " 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 It has to be said that he has impressed for England's Under-19s but there is a big gap between that level and the Premier League. As is understood, players who mature early have an advantage over their peers, and so it is not a given that he will turn into a world-beater. He's done okay when he's played for the first-team but I think he probably needs to continue as a late substitute before he displaces one of the more established players as a starter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, MakemineVanilla said: It has to be said that he has impressed for England's Under-19s but there is a big gap between that level and the Premier League. As is understood, players who mature early have an advantage over their peers, and so it is not a given that he will turn into a world-beater. He's done okay when he's played for the first-team but I think he probably needs to continue as a late substitute before he displaces one of the more established players as a starter. Therein lies the problem, will that be enough to convince him to sign a new contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Tom13 said: Broken promise by Dean Smith has ruined his trust in the club? Has anyone told him that Dean Smith is no longer at the club? Has anyone told the “journalist” who made up the story, or Carney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) If he wants to start games now he needs to sign up and get out on loan to the championship like his mates JPB and Archer. 30+ starts as an "8" with a decent championship side and he could come back a man and ready to start?? It didn't do Mount and Gallagher any harm. Btw, he looks ready for it from watching the highlights of the u-19s. Edited June 23, 2022 by barry'sboots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: It has to be said that he has impressed for England's Under-19s but there is a big gap between that level and the Premier League. As is understood, players who mature early have an advantage over their peers, and so it is not a given that he will turn into a world-beater. He's done okay when he's played for the first-team but I think he probably needs to continue as a late substitute before he displaces one of the more established players as a starter. If we are honest, and take away " the fear of losing him " , the best thing for him would probably be a loan to a top Championship Club, or even a mid level overseas club ( French, Belgian, German etc ) to test himself week in week out against grown men and learn and improve, before being released into our full first team. Ask yourself if he would currently be a starter at a lesser PL team, or any of the team's he's been linked with, if the answer is no, then ask why he should be starting for us? Edited June 23, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Just now, barry'sboots said: If he wants to start games now he needs to sign up and get out on loan to the championship like his mates JPB and Archer. 30+ starts as an "8" with a decent championship side and he could come back a man and ready to start?? I found it strange he never went out on loan with the rest of the players that won the Youth Cup, he was arguably the star of the team. Had he went on loan the same time as KKH, Barry etc. we might not be having this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 hours ago, duke313 said: I think that would be a decent option rather than lose him for some compensation next summer. The danger is if he sets the Prem alight, other teams will be interested, the player still has to agree to come back to us, even if we activate a buy back clause there is nothing stopping another team like Chelsea or Spurs making an offer and him going there. I'm not going to get into another Coutinho being hijacked discussion, but the whole and entire point of a buy back clause is if we activate it he's ours as per the pre agreed (by all parties) contract condition. No one can come offer an alternative as it's set in stone pre agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, duke313 said: Therein lies the problem, will that be enough to convince him to sign a new contract? Should do because if you look at the Chelsea and City players in this u19s team they aren't even getting a sniff of the bench yet for those clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: If we are honest, and take away " the fear of losing him " , the best thing for him would probably be a loan to a top Championship Club, or even a mid level overseas club ( French, Belgian, German etc ) to test himself week in week out against grown men and learn and improve, before being released into our full first team. Ask yourself if he would currently be a starter at a lesser PL team, or any of the team's he's been linked with, if the answer is no, then ask why he should be starting for us? I think a loan would be better, as the demands of playing possibly two games a week, would certainly offer a real test of his consistency and endurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, villa4europe said: City players in this u19s team they aren't even getting a sniff of the bench yet What kind of freaky shit are you into man? Edited June 23, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, duke313 said: Seems like a knockoff Fabrizio Romano. Nous y voilà Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: What kind of freaky shit are you into man? Tip of the iceberg... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 3 hours ago, sidcow said: Maybe the answer is to sell him to a lower PL or recently promoted PL team with a reasonable buy back clause and get him back in a couple of years if he sets the PL alight. We are a lower PL team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, HalfTimePost said: We are a lower PL team. A lower lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, HalfTimePost said: We are a lower PL team. Not next season we won't be. We don't CURRENTLY need to utilise Carney. Other teams might want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, sidcow said: I'm not going to get into another Coutinho being hijacked discussion, but the whole and entire point of a buy back clause is if we activate it he's ours as per the pre agreed (by all parties) contract condition. No one can come offer an alternative as it's set in stone pre agreed. The point of a buy back clause is for the players who isn't likely to feature to be sold, and then bought back by the selling club if he turns good for a fixed price. That is not the same as the Coutinho situation, that was a loan with an option to buy. Chelsea usually have a buy back option when they sell their academy players, Livramento for example, as do most Spanish clubs, the options to purchase the player back usually expires though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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