Generic Virus Thread

[bickster]

8 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

And when did he break these rules? Or is it just guilty without any evidence?

You've seen the photo of him with the near naked female who doesn't live with him?

That IS breaking the rules

[sidcow]

23 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

And when did he break these rules? Or is it just guilty without any evidence?

I didn't say if he did or didn't break the rules. 

It's the attitude of people not really caring and thinking it's OK regardless. 

[Stevo985]

18 minutes ago, bickster said:

You've seen the photo of him with the near naked female who doesn't live with him?

That IS breaking the rules

Depends when it was

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Depends when it was

True, I was assuming it was very recent

[mikeyp102]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

You've seen the photo of him with the near naked female who doesn't live with him?

That IS breaking the rules

Not necessarily.

Firstly, we don’t know when that was (which you’ve accepted after).

Secondly, we don’t know their situation. If they both live alone, they are allowed to be each other’s support bubble and meet up indoors. Now I don’t know Jack’s personal life, but without knowing the facts I find it hard to judge.

[mikeyp102]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

I didn't say if he did or didn't break the rules. 

It's the attitude of people not really caring and thinking it's OK regardless. 

Fair enough 

[sidcow]

According to an Oxford University poll a quarter of people are reluctant to get the jab. 

It just shows that despite the hugely serious nature of this disease which has brought the world to it's knees, the propaganda of a few nut jobs has filtered through to the general population. 

People thing vaccines are dangerous.. With all that's gone on, why on earth would 25% of people still not want a jab!? Totally shocking. 

Science has worked so hard to rid mankind of so many terrible diseases and gets junked by a couple of hundred idiots. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by sidcow

[Stevo985]

27 minutes ago, sidcow said:

According to an Oxford University poll a quarter of people are reluctant to get the jab. 

It just shows that despite the hugely serious nature of this disease which has brought the world to it's knees, the probaganda of a few nut jobs has filtered through to the general population. 

People thing vaccines are dangerous.. With all that's gone on, why on earth would 25% of people still not want a jab!? Totally shocking. 

Science has worked so hard to rid mankind of so many terrible diseases and gets junked by a couple of hundred idiots. 

I think there was a genuine reason to be slightly nervous about this one because we've heard about how it's been pushed through far quicker than normal. So I think it's ok to have a bit of nervousness about it.

The point is though that that can be quickly explained and the safety of it reassured which should calm anybody's fears. Unfortunately in the age of facebook people will go from justifiably nervous to full on nnut job in a second rather than listen to the experts who are telling them it's fine

[desensitized43]

30 minutes ago, sidcow said:

According to an Oxford University poll a quarter of people are reluctant to get the jab. 

It just shows that despite the hugely serious nature of this disease which has brought the world to it's knees, the probaganda of a few nut jobs has filtered through to the general population. 

People thing vaccines are dangerous.. With all that's gone on, why on earth would 25% of people still not want a jab!? Totally shocking. 

Science has worked so hard to rid mankind of so many terrible diseases and gets junked by a couple of hundred idiots. 

There's a couple of serious issues. The first is the way social media has given a prominent platform to every head case. 20 years ago these people would have to hand out flyers in centenary square and reach a few hundred people, most of who wouldn't read it and would either end up on the floor or bin.

The second is how clear it is how vulnerable people are to this kind of propaganda. I remember learning about the rise of the Nazi's (an extreme case, I know) and thinking "how can so many people have fallen for this crap?". If the last few years of Brexit and Trump has taught us anything it's that it could happen again, and it's arguably easier to convince people than ever before. I'm not saying people are stupid but it's clear a lot of people haven't been taught to think critically.

[Genie]

54 minutes ago, sidcow said:

why on earth would 25% of people still not want a jab!?

From my own research it’s the same group as Brexit is good, hard Brexit even better, coronavirus is a plandemic and also linked to 5G phone networks.

They also don’t care about anyone else and as they see themselves as young and healthy they will take their chances and don’t care if they move it onto someone more vulnerable.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Genie

[snowychap]

On 24/11/2020 at 05:47, snowychap said:

 

On 24/11/2020 at 10:44, HanoiVillan said:

I also don't understand why he is talking about *the cost of a test* when the figure given is for the *test and trace* system. Obviously the 'tracing' part is a large part of the cost! You don't get call centres full of contact tracers for free.

(That being said, it does seem like a huge sum of money)

Going back to the discussion around this topic, the NAO have released their interim report, in which it says (from an article today on the Grauniad website - but the numbers are taken directly from the report):

Quote

The study from Whitehall’s spending watchdog found that up to the end of October, the scheme spent £2bn less than forecast due to underspending on laboratories, machines and mass testing. Of the £15bn of funding confirmed before the November Spending Review, about £12.8bn (85%) was assigned to testing and £1.3bn to tracing.

That was funding assigned and not actual expenditure to date which was, as per the report (available here) :

Quote

1.31 As of 31 October, NHST&T’s actual expenditure to date was £4 billion (27% of the £15 billion budget approved before the November Spending Review), about £2 billion less than expected (Figure 8 on page 37). The largest underspend relates to laboratories and machines (£754 million) which will require further investigation to ensure resources are not tied up if they are no longer required.
 

The tweeter's kick off point on assumed cost per test may not have been too wide of the mark (*) and the concern about a budget that has gone from an actual expenditure of £4billion up until the 31st Oct (with 'assigned' funding of £15 billion) to a budget of £22 billion ought to raise concerns especially as the NAO also say, in their report:

Quote

1.32 The emergency nature of the initial response meant that NHST&T did not have time to establish standard controls and processes in financial management before service delivery commenced. An internal document from June noted, “there are insufficient financial controls and understanding across NHST&T”. NHST&T determined in October that this issue had been addressed by strengthening its financial governance and approvals process but we have not been able to review the improvements made in this interim report.
 

*Looking at fig 8 in the report, it has a total of £2.774 billion for testing to the end of Oct and elsewhere it has a number of 23million tests between 28 May and 4 Nov with a figure of 263,000 tests carried out per day by end of Oct (fig 11) which would suggest an approx unit cost per test (thus excluding the Programme area and tracing costs) of about £126 each. That's taking a quick look - I may have made an error and there may be a better calculation elsewhere in the document.

The original point really does still stand that questions need to be raised and answered as to what the money is being assigned to, where it is actually going, whether it represents value for money, whether Test and Trace have actually strengthened their financial governance and approvals processes, &c.

Edited December 11, 2020 by snowychap

[HanoiVillan]

If you want an interesting/somewhat depressing listen about vaccine-skeptical people, the New York Times podcast 'The Daily' did an episode with street interviews in London this week, which you can listen to for free here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/09/podcasts/the-daily/UK-pfizer-vaccine.html

A couple of really striking things - the coverage is much more like 'THIS IS A BIG HISTORIC MOMENT' than it felt living through it, and the fairly high proportion of people saying they won't get vaccinated.

[choffer]

3 hours ago, sidcow said:

According to an Oxford University poll a quarter of people are reluctant to get the jab. 

It just shows that despite the hugely serious nature of this disease which has brought the world to it's knees, the propaganda of a few nut jobs has filtered through to the general population. 

People thing vaccines are dangerous.. With all that's gone on, why on earth would 25% of people still not want a jab!? Totally shocking. 

Science has worked so hard to rid mankind of so many terrible diseases and gets junked by a couple of hundred idiots. 

I have a nurse visit me every day at the moment (it’s really not as fun as it was in my imagination). She floored me yesterday when she said “I won’t be taking the vaccine. How do we know what’s in it?”.

A medical professional saying they won’t take it. We are doomed. 

[Genie]

There’s a problem in society, obviously it’s ok to be skeptical but at some point a significant proportion of the population began to look at experts as untrustworthy. And the musings of someone completely unqualified on social media as gospel.

Its flipped back to front.

[lapal_fan]

There are reasons for people who are considered low risk to be wary of it.

There have been vaccines or treatments previously which are now not given to certain people (I.e. pregnant). 

Whilst I'm confident in the science and I'm confident Bill Gates isn't gonna hack my brain  I'd still be very reluctant to give it my kids though. 

I'm 99.9% sure it's a good thing, and I'll get it when I can, but I'd still like to wait and see the affects (if any) on a wider demographic. 

I could just read more, and already have read some of the papers on AstraZeneca for instance.  

[sharkyvilla]

If nutters don't want it and it means I get mine quicker then I don't really give that much of a shit.

[bickster]

13 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

If nutters don't want it and it means I get mine quicker then I don't really give that much of a shit.

You will if nutters catch it and end up killing your Gran

[sharkyvilla]

15 minutes ago, bickster said:

You will if nutters catch it and end up killing your Gran

Well obviously I was being a bit facetious, though by the time most of the gullible Facebook crowd are due theirs the elderly and people with underlying conditions should have had theirs.  When it comes to the general population anyone who doesn't sign up straight away is a bit daft and selfishly if it means I get the vaccine earlier then it's a bonus.

[Jonesy7211]

I was invited to an online Q&A regarding the three leading vaccines earlier this week, and all of the medical professors and doctors on the panel were unanimous. The effects of people not having the vaccine will have more impact in society than those that do. The more people that have the vaccine sooner means invariably we'll be able to get back to 'normal' far quicker.

I can post the link to the video if anyone is interested, it focuses mostly on the impact of the vaccine and people with IBD, but it was very revealing in explaining the currently known facts around the pfizer/moderna/oxford vaccines. I think most critically they all said they would be having the vaccine; two of the panel would be having it this week.

I think the more genuine information the government can get out now would go a very long way in neutralizing the tin foil hat brigade, although I do realize not many people trust this government currently. I'd like to see Sage and the NHS perhaps giving information where possible.

[snowychap]

44 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

When it comes to the general population anyone who doesn't sign up straight away is a bit daft

No, they aren't.

Edited December 11, 2020 by snowychap