Davkaus Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, bielesibub said: Attempting to keep people safe by using fines on rule breakers - Not harsh or severe, these people have an alternative, they can stick to the rules. I agree with your conclusion that these measures aren't particularly severe, but your logic is faulty. Having an alternative doesn't make a punishment not harsh. "All litterers will be knee capped.". Not harsh or severe, they can stick to the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Having an alternative doesn't make a punishment not harsh. "All litterers will be knee capped.". Not harsh or severe, they can stick to the rules. Hold up - don't give people any ideas. And you're quite right with your point about an 'alternative'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bielesibub Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, snowychap said: Don't just quote a one line dictionary definition of a word thinking this is an answer without understanding its regular use and the context in which it has been and is being used. Did you miss the actual content of my post? In case you did, I'll remind you of my opening line: After which, I go on to give a couple of examples of measures which appear to be pretty draconian. Remarkably enough, I didn't refer to some of the headline things that The Mail may have put up there or those things that you have listed because I said that 'I don't think they're far wrong with regards to some of the measures'. Beyond measures such as closing pubs early, there are measures such as the ones which I spoke about (and there are more) when I said some of those measures. On a wider note, your response reminds me just how easily a country is able to descend in to petty authoritarianism - often under claims of 'utilitarianism' yet often utterly failing to understand utilitarianism at all or to see one policy aspect and its outcomes in any more than a single dimension. It's really disturbing and a sign that there's much more to come and that it'll often receive populist support. For the greater good and in an attempt to channel John Stuart Mills, I will doff my cap to you so as to not allow this thread to turn into a bickering match. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bielesibub said: For the greater good and in an attempt to channel John Stuart Mills, I will doff my cap to you so as to not allow this thread to turn into a bickering match. Mill. Edited September 23, 2020 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2020 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2020 Academic year is going well so far... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, bickster said: Academic year is going well so far... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, bickster said: Academic year is going well so far... How could anyone have seen this coming? Just because we all saw American Universities going back with exactly the same thing happening a few weeks in advance of our own... How we can claim to be following the science whilst ignoring the evidence is some classic doublespeak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, Straggler said: How could anyone have seen this coming? Just because we all saw American Universities going back with exactly the same thing happening a few weeks in advance of our own... How we can claim to be following the science whilst ignoring the evidence is some classic doublespeak. Johnson was far to quick (2 or 3 days into the non-university school year) to declare them safe. This is looking like U-Turn number 647 is on its way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2020 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2020 I'm also seeing reports of 87 cases at Liverpool University and it's only Freshers Week and the Academic year hasn't actually started Though how anyone can know this as I was also told yesterday by someone involved that there isn't a single testing kit on Merseyside... (Both these statements are heresay so treat them as such) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, bickster said: I'm also seeing reports of 87 cases at Liverpool University and it's only Freshers Week and the Academic year hasn't actually started Though how anyone can know this as I was also told yesterday by someone involved that there isn't a single testing kit on Merseyside... (Both these statements are heresay so treat them as such) I’m wondering if places like professional sports clubs and universities have bought up all the limited supply of kits so Joe Public who wants one from the NHS can’t get one. Is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, bickster said: I'm also seeing reports of 87 cases at Liverpool University and it's only Freshers Week and the Academic year hasn't actually started Though how anyone can know this as I was also told yesterday by someone involved that there isn't a single testing kit on Merseyside... (Both these statements are heresay so treat them as such) Am I to treat them as hearsay or heresy? I'm not sure if I need to grab a pitchfork and a flaming torch or simply await further evidence. I'm up for either. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Straggler said: Am I to treat them as hearsay or heresy? I'm not sure if I need to grab a pitchfork and a flaming torch or simply await further evidence. I'm up for either. Treat it as Hear’Say, pure and simple. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 I know of one Uni using it’s own labs to do a fast turnaround test for students. Govt aware they have facilities but not using them, so they are doing their own in house testing for speed of turnaround, known capacity, and keeping students away from the official system and causing that over demand issues. Remember when companies were offering to make ppe and not getting a response? Well same with testing. I have that info from quite a direct source. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Genie said: Treat it as Hear’Say, pure and simple. No Sclub argument about this lot Myleene, was best and it wasn't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Straggler said: No Sclub argument about this lot Myleene, was best and it wasn't even close. Whilst I’d agree on Myleene, the other 2 are filth so (Yes I did crop the 2 lads out of the picture). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 1 hour ago, snowychap said: 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: Having an alternative doesn't make a punishment not harsh. "All litterers will be knee capped.". Not harsh or severe, they can stick to the rules. Making them unable to bend their knees, surely this means they can never pick up their litter in the future and cancels out any rehabilitation prospects. (Sorry, just messing about ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Making them unable to bend their knees, surely this means they can never pick up their litter in the future and cancels out any rehabilitation prospects. (Sorry, just messing about ) I like the reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Making them unable to bend their knees, surely this means they can never pick up their litter in the future and cancels out any rehabilitation prospects. (Sorry, just messing about ) The threat of being knee capped will be enough to ensure they never break the law Edited September 23, 2020 by Genie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 23, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted September 23, 2020 Highly contagious disease + hundreds of people in close proximity from widely different backgrounds = Profit? It's like schools. But schools where the kids just mix together all day every day. However could this cause a problem?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chindie said: Highly contagious disease + hundreds of people in close proximity from widely different backgrounds = Profit? It's like schools. But schools where the kids just mix together all day every day. However could this cause a problem?! At least with the younger kids they are not getting pissed and sticking parts of their bodies into parts of other people. Mine have been back in primary school 3 weeks now and no reported cases amongst children or staff, yet. Fingers crossed it stays that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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