Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Southampton

[OutByEaster?]

The game was won in the opening ten minutes with Southampton's high press - they pressed our back four as soon they got the ball from the keeper through Ings, Redmond and the accursed Long and we weren't good enough to get out. Losing McGinn early got rid of one of our favourite ways to do that and we were a team completely pinned to our back line. With more of the ball than usual, the mistakes of that backline were magnified and then that backline got all panicky and then we fell to pieces.

Once that press was established, Southampton's day become straightforward. Defensively, once the nerves set in we were atrocious, the midfield did very little to help and the back four crumbled. The goals we conceded were very poor, our marking on the corner was diabolical and the way in which Engels allowed Long to run past him for their first was shocking.

We're a team without any confidence, there was no bounce in the warm up, no smiles and jokes - when we found a little heart late on, we looked the better side and the Villa team from a month ago might have done a lot better I think - but the current one is a real worry and the lessons of the last couple of weeks simply cannot be ignored.

There's no shortage of effort, but some of these players don't have the quality to carry a team in this league.

Our backline is worrying, we're not aggressive enough aerially and we don't pass the ball well - we need Tyrone Mings back to add some of that quality and we need more from both fullbacks, Targett in particular.

In midfield, Jack stands out, but without McGinn we're weak in the middle of the park - it's a decent supporting cast and a bright prospect - but no lead actors. I think we have to look at putting Jack back into the middle if McGinn is out - if we don't do that, we risk being trapped again.

There are three ways to beat that press - clever midfield play, a ball up to a big man who holds it up, or a ball over the top for quick players to chase. We're limited to start with by our lack of pace, so the ball over the top is gone - the majority of our clever midfield play is the turning ability of Meatball's big Scottish arse and when the only option left is long balls up to Wesley, it's too easy for defenders to figure out and close down.

Today's Wesley I thought was pretty good - he was possibly our best player in the first half - he worked very hard, held the ball up when he could and brought people into play - a lot of good centre forward play - but I'm not sure he had a shot against the worst defence in the division. Whether that's all down to him is debatable - but it's a frustration when he's doing a lot of other stuff well.

So, we're suspect defensively, we can't get the ball out throughout midfield, we don't have a pacy outlet and we don't carry a goal threat. It's not a good recipe is it?

It's the first big challenge for Dean Smith - our system isn't working, or at least we're unable to play this system well with the players that we have - we need to change something, we need to try things. That's the manager's job, the burden of finding ways to make us solid and to give us a chance to win games is his. He needs to do that quickly - it's clear we need some help in January, but we need to find ways to improve in the crucial games between now and then.

For me the key is get Grealish on the ball - he was too quiet in the first half, worryingly petulant at the start of the second and magnificently heroic in the last twenty minutes - he played better when we gave up on our tactical plan, when he could play as an individual and try to do it himself. For me the key is getting him into positions where he's central to everything we do - more Grealish is good. 

The manager will look at Grealish on his back after the final whistle with his head in his hands and will know that part of his burden in finding a way to change things is that he's watching the player losing a little of the faith in his dream. It's my dream too and Mr Smith needs to find a way to keep it alive and quickly.

We were garbage today. It needs to change.

 

 

 

 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Well lets not beat around the bush- that was dog turd and we are in a real relegation scrap now.  Started badly with McGinn and got worse. Not one played well and we gave the game away to a poor southampton side. Defending was abysmal all afternoon.

I am baffled why Smith did not do a sub or change the formation at half time to try and get us back in the game. Then left in the 3rd and bring Kodjia on? A bad day at the office but not very confident about Norich now.  Luiz frusrates me, I have no idea what Marvelous was thinking off for the third and Wesley ran around a bit. 

The best bit of the afternoon was when Saints fans thought they scored a fourth but hit the side netting we all took the pish. Jack scpred a good consolation. That is about it.

a few Villa fans thought so too.

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The game was won in the opening ten minutes with Southampton's high press - they pressed our back four as soon they got the ball from the keeper through Ings, Redmond and the accursed Long and we weren't good enough to get out. Losing McGinn early got rid of one of our favourite ways to do that and we were a team completely pinned to our back line. With more of the ball than usual, the mistakes of that backline were magnified and then that backline got all panicky and then we fell to pieces.

Once that press was established, Southampton's day become straightforward. Defensively, once the nerves set in we were atrocious, the midfield did very little to help and the back four crumbled. The goals we conceded were very poor, our marking on the corner was diabolical and the way in which Engels allowed Long to run past him for their first was shocking.

We're a team without any confidence, there was no bounce in the warm up, no smiles and jokes - when we found a little heart late on, we looked the better side and the Villa team from a month ago might have done a lot better I think - but the current one is a real worry and the lessons of the last couple of weeks simply cannot be ignored.

There's no shortage of effort, but some of these players don't have the quality to carry a team in this league.

Our backline is worrying, we're not aggressive enough aerially and we don't pass the ball well - we need Tyrone Mings back to add some of that quality and we need more from both fullbacks, Targett in particular.

In midfield, Jack stands out, but without McGinn we're weak in the middle of the park - it's a decent supporting cast and a bright prospect - but no lead actors. I think we have to look at putting Jack back into the middle if McGinn is out - if we don't do that, we risk being trapped again.

There are three ways to beat that press - clever midfield play, a ball up to a big man who holds it up, or a ball over the top for quick players to chase. We're limited to start with by our lack of pace, so the ball over the top is gone - the majority of our clever midfield play is the turning ability of Meatball's big Scottish arse and when the only option left is long balls up to Wesley, it's too easy for defenders to figure out and close down.

Today's Wesley I thought was pretty good - he was possibly our best player in the first half - he worked very hard, held the ball up when he could and brought people into play - a lot of good centre forward play - but I'm not sure he had a shot against the worst defence in the division. Whether that's all down to him is debatable - but it's a frustration when he's doing a lot of other stuff well.

So, we're suspect defensively, we can't get the ball out throughout midfield, we don't have a pacy outlet and we don't carry a goal threat. It's not a good recipe is it?

It's the first big challenge for Dean Smith - our system isn't working, or at least we're unable to play this system well with the players that we have - we need to change something, we need to try things. That's the manager's job, the burden of finding ways to make us solid and to give us a chance to win games is his. He needs to do that quickly - it's clear we need some help in January, but we need to find ways to improve in the crucial games between now and then.

For me the key is get Grealish on the ball - he was too quiet in the first half, worryingly petulant at the start of the second and magnificently heroic in the last twenty minutes - he played better when we gave up on our tactical plan, when he could play as an individual and try to do it himself. For me the key is getting him into positions where he's central to everything we do - more Grealish is good. 

The manager will look at Grealish on his back after the final whistle with his head in his hands and will know that part of his burden in finding a way to change things is that he's watching the player losing a little of the faith in his dream. It's my dream too and Mr Smith needs to find a way to keep it alive and quickly.

We were garbage today. It needs to change.

 

 

 

 

I disagree with that view, ( highlighted)but accept its open to interpretation....unintelligent running around with scant regard for positional sense is not my idea of effort or predictable movement that is tantamount to going through the motions.

If it was true, we showed effort, believe me, we wouldn't be in the mess we are.

I think the majority of our players are bankrupt of fight or audacity or a willingness to mix it with any competency....some of our challenges, I don't know whether to laugh or cry, such is the incompetency of the efforts.

I watched Southampton close us down today at every opportunity, they showed a willingness to do so and an intensity to boot......In contrast Villa showed them acres of space and an opportunity gift wrapped to play in it......this is not a bad day at the office like some have said, this is not the first time this offering has been on show.....some of our defending is a comedy show and its been left unchecked for too long now....game after game the same signs are there.

Dean has a real challenge on his hands now.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by TRO

[flashingqwerty]

Bottlers, no-hopers and charletans - and DS is the biggest one of them all.  Shown up to be completely clueless at this level, and serious questions need to be asked as to whether the board give him more money in Jan or take a chance on someone else.  But its clear that whatever DS is doing right now isnt working and we are no better on match day 20 than on match day 1, i'd argue we were worse.  No fluidity, no common wavelength, no fight, no drive, no ambition.  A group of 11 strangers couldnt look less of a team than us today.

I'd give DS the next 2 games, if only to hang himself with, as i've zero faith he is up to turning this around.  The players are not fighting for him, and that is huge.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

Bottlers, no-hopers and charletans - and DS is the biggest one of them all.  Shown up to be completely clueless at this level, and serious questions need to be asked as to whether the board give him more money in Jan or take a chance on someone else.  But its clear that whatever DS is doing right now isnt working and we are no better on match day 20 than on match day 1, i'd argue we were worse.  No fluidity, no common wavelength, no fight, no drive, no ambition.  A group of 11 strangers couldnt look less of a team than us today.

I'd give DS the next 2 games, if only to hang himself with, as i've zero faith he is up to turning this around.  The players are not fighting for him, and that is huge.

It is serious, Isn't it.

[TRO]

40 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Getting outfought every week.

Once again. Saints wanted it more than us, fought harder and won fair and square.

but the worst is......its so bloomin' obvious.

do they think it will just go away on its own?

[Brumstopdogs]

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-southampton-premier-league-17459629

Quote

And Hasenhuttl has revealed the game-plan behind the big win .

"We knew players if they come and try and get past out last line there would be space for us to counter," he said.

"The problem is we didn't do it that perfect like we did in the first half. We had a lot of runs in the last line, especially in behind inside their defending full-backs.

"There was a lot of space for our quick strikers, we always pose problems.

"We knew we could have chances and it was important to take them. Finally, it was a good performance."

 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Graham t said:

They were 'shit' at Villa but other clubs have been able to get more out of them. Its called 'coaching', something that does not exist at Villa Park....

I would agree, its amazing the number of players who are deemed not good enough for Villa who apparently pretty good for other sides.

[Awol]

49 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The game was won in the opening ten minutes with Southampton's high press - they pressed our back four as soon they got the ball from the keeper through Ings, Redmond and the accursed Long and we weren't good enough to get out. Losing McGinn early got rid of one of our favourite ways to do that and we were a team completely pinned to our back line. With more of the ball than usual, the mistakes of that backline were magnified and then that backline got all panicky and then we fell to pieces.

Once that press was established, Southampton's day become straightforward. Defensively, once the nerves set in we were atrocious, the midfield did very little to help and the back four crumbled. The goals we conceded were very poor, our marking on the corner was diabolical and the way in which Engels allowed Long to run past him for their first was shocking.

We're a team without any confidence, there was no bounce in the warm up, no smiles and jokes - when we found a little heart late on, we looked the better side and the Villa team from a month ago might have done a lot better I think - but the current one is a real worry and the lessons of the last couple of weeks simply cannot be ignored.

There's no shortage of effort, but some of these players don't have the quality to carry a team in this league.

Our backline is worrying, we're not aggressive enough aerially and we don't pass the ball well - we need Tyrone Mings back to add some of that quality and we need more from both fullbacks, Targett in particular.

In midfield, Jack stands out, but without McGinn we're weak in the middle of the park - it's a decent supporting cast and a bright prospect - but no lead actors. I think we have to look at putting Jack back into the middle if McGinn is out - if we don't do that, we risk being trapped again.

There are three ways to beat that press - clever midfield play, a ball up to a big man who holds it up, or a ball over the top for quick players to chase. We're limited to start with by our lack of pace, so the ball over the top is gone - the majority of our clever midfield play is the turning ability of Meatball's big Scottish arse and when the only option left is long balls up to Wesley, it's too easy for defenders to figure out and close down.

Today's Wesley I thought was pretty good - he was possibly our best player in the first half - he worked very hard, held the ball up when he could and brought people into play - a lot of good centre forward play - but I'm not sure he had a shot against the worst defence in the division. Whether that's all down to him is debatable - but it's a frustration when he's doing a lot of other stuff well.

So, we're suspect defensively, we can't get the ball out throughout midfield, we don't have a pacy outlet and we don't carry a goal threat. It's not a good recipe is it?

It's the first big challenge for Dean Smith - our system isn't working, or at least we're unable to play this system well with the players that we have - we need to change something, we need to try things. That's the manager's job, the burden of finding ways to make us solid and to give us a chance to win games is his. He needs to do that quickly - it's clear we need some help in January, but we need to find ways to improve in the crucial games between now and then.

For me the key is get Grealish on the ball - he was too quiet in the first half, worryingly petulant at the start of the second and magnificently heroic in the last twenty minutes - he played better when we gave up on our tactical plan, when he could play as an individual and try to do it himself. For me the key is getting him into positions where he's central to everything we do - more Grealish is good. 

The manager will look at Grealish on his back after the final whistle with his head in his hands and will know that part of his burden in finding a way to change things is that he's watching the player losing a little of the faith in his dream. It's my dream too and Mr Smith needs to find a way to keep it alive and quickly.

We were garbage today. It needs to change.

One more point.. I’m surprised JT is having so little impact in the defensive coaching, genuinely expected that to be our foundation this season. 

[villalad21]

34 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-southampton-premier-league-17459629

 

We're so easy to play against. Every team will just copy Leicester and Saints tactics against us.

[villalad21]

12 minutes ago, Awol said:

One more point.. I’m surprised JT is having so little impact in the defensive coaching, genuinely expected that to be our foundation this season. 

Is he doing it on purpose to get Smith sacked so he can get a shot at the job?

Yep. It's time for conspiracy theories.

[flashingqwerty]

6 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Is he doing it on purpose to get Smith sacked so he can get a shot at the job?

Yep. It's time for conspiracy theories.

If i were the owners, and was to sack DS, i wouldn't put Terry in charge as the defence, which he should be coaching, is possibly our weakest area.  If one goes (DS) they should both go.

[VillaFaninLondon]

1 hour ago, flashingqwerty said:

Bottlers, no-hopers and charletans - and DS is the biggest one of them all.  Shown up to be completely clueless at this level, and serious questions need to be asked as to whether the board give him more money in Jan or take a chance on someone else.  But its clear that whatever DS is doing right now isnt working and we are no better on match day 20 than on match day 1, i'd argue we were worse.  No fluidity, no common wavelength, no fight, no drive, no ambition.  A group of 11 strangers couldnt look less of a team than us today.

I'd give DS the next 2 games, if only to hang himself with, as i've zero faith he is up to turning this around.  The players are not fighting for him, and that is huge.

I've no idea what the owners are thinking but after today you'd have to believe they are considering all the possibilities. Despite how bad Norwich and Watford have been this season, I have no confidence we'll beat either of them and if that turns out to be the case Smith's position is simply untenable, if it wasn't already. Honestly, I don't care if we get someone who plays dull football for half a season - if it keeps us in the Premier League, that is the most important thing. Once that objective is achieved we can look to bring in a higher profile manager in the summer who will be able to bring in a higher calibre of player and give the team a structure. We've got no identity under Smith as it is, so bringing in a manager who's more defensively minded that can grind out results will be the best thing for us at this time. We just have to stay up, that's what we've invested £150m into the club to do. 

[smg]

Smith out ! We don’t need to go expensive get the owners to follow Villatalk there are numerous posters on here that could do the job no problem.

[The Fun Factory]

Today is all Smith this and Smith that but I think we need to look again at the summer transfer window. That was a crucial window as we had to build a new team to survive in the premier league in about two months. Other than Heaton who has premier league experience none of the new boys have looked consistently ready for this division.   We look naive and lightweight  throughout the whole team. Only getting in Wesley was crazy as well. At the moment it does not bode well. Sad face.

Edited December 21, 2019 by The Fun Factory

[BigJim]

56 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Today is all Smith this and Smith that but I think we need to look again at the summer transfer window. That was a crucial window as we had to build a new team to survive in the premier league in about two months. Other than Heaton who has premier league experience none of the new boys have looked consistently ready for this division.   We look naive and lightweight  throughout the whole team. Only getting in Wesley was crazy as well. At the moment it does not bode well. Sad face.

Have to say I agree with this and have had doubts about most of them from the off. Overall, a pretty poor recruitment effort, no doubt about it.

[VillaCas]

5 hours ago, nick76 said:

No chance!

I think he’s struggling at the moment but so is the rest of the team.  This will turn into the usual debate that some think he’s beyond awful and the others think he’s struggling, not being helped out and he’s being played wrong

Seriously, pound for pound he must be the worst bit of business we’ve ever done - if you disagree, who would you say was worse?

[flashingqwerty]

2 hours ago, smg said:

Smith out ! We don’t need to go expensive get the owners to follow Villatalk there are numerous posters on here that could do the job no problem.

I know you say this tongue in cheek, but some of the mistakes DS has made, and continues to make are so basic that i'm not sure that it's entirely the case.

To be clear, i think there are some posters on here that could do a better job.  DS, when he arrived was full of passion and vigor, and the players, whilst poor, reflected that vigor.

He then got is promoted, was given a shed load of cash and brought in his own players with "the right attitude" and since then that passion and vigor has slowly ebbed away from both the players and DS.

I don't want to blame the new contract, but our performances since DS got his new deal have been amongst the worst of his tenure.

I think, ultimately, his lack of experience has reached a point that he now thinks he's out of his depth, and has lost faith in himself.  This has resulted in the players losing faith in him, and each other.

[flashingqwerty]

1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said:

Today is all Smith this and Smith that but I think we need to look again at the summer transfer window. That was a crucial window as we had to build a new team to survive in the premier league in about two months. Other than Heaton who has premier league experience none of the new boys have looked consistently ready for this division.   We look naive and lightweight  throughout the whole team. Only getting in Wesley was crazy as well. At the moment it does not bode well. Sad face.

Smith this, and that?  Who do you think signed the players that "'aren't ready for this division"?

This does all rest on DS, as these are his players.  I'm also not convinced the players are necessarily the issue, as much as DS's insistance in his rigid and unchanging dogma which just hasnt translated from the championship to the PL.

I've no doubt he is a good coach, i'm just not convinced he is technically and tactically gifted enough to make it at this level.

[Kingman]

Appears most of the team stayed with me on the concourse drinking and didn't come out for the 2nd half either!