cheltenham_villa Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 10 minutes ago, eholm said: As you say very different profiles of CF. Still think there's a place for Archer in the squad as ECL games will be very beneficial for him...its just the PL that worries me. Duran appears to be more similar to Ollie but waaaaaay too raw at the moment. Duran in more need of a loan at this stage imo. Unai must be looking at a forward who has similarities to Ollie...... agree with all that you have said. I would like Archer to get a good chance. I dont think Archer is in a position to be relied upon should we lose Watkins for a while. The player profile makes it tricky. Personally i still expect to see another forward come in, i think its a very difficult position to recruit for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, useless said: Archer won't be a direct replacement for Watkins, they're completely different type of players, CA is no more lilie Watkins than Louie Barry is, as it stands Duran will be Watkins replacement unless we sign someone else. Archer is more of a wide forward, or second striker, he always has been, not sure why this constantly gets ignored, he's never had a run of games as the main striker, in any of our academy teams, or out on loan, in theory he might be able to play as a Vardy type but other than the odd game here and there he hasn't had much practice in that role. If we have games where we need a goal and he comes on to play alongside Watkins then we will probably see the best side of him. Agreed, but he hasn’t been given the opportunity in that role or played alongside Watkins yet has he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 That' sthe point pim makeing he's had to play in Watkins stead because of being only alternative option no Duran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eholm Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 7 minutes ago, useless said: Archer won't be a direct replacement for Watkins, they're completely different type of players, CA is no more lilie Watkins than Louie Barry is, as it stands Duran will be Watkins replacement unless we sign someone else. Archer is more of a wide forward, or second striker, he always has been, not sure why this constantly gets ignored, he's never had a run of games as the main striker, in any of our academy teams, or out on loan, in theory he might be able to play as a Vardy type but other than the odd game here and there he hasn't had much practice in that role. If we have games where we need a goal and he comes on to play alongside Watkins then we will probably see the best side of him. Not ignoring that factat all as it is pretty obvious. However, should OW be injured then at present you would expect Archer to be in the team as his proxy-replacement due to the lack of other options in the squad (Duran still too raw imo)...that's why there is a discussion about his ability to play that role. Now, should we sign another CF then Archer can be used in a role that bettre suits his abilities. Hopefully that signing happens as I think its pretty essential tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jareth Posted August 4, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 4, 2023 Tough for him, Unai wants champions league, Archer needs games at prem level - I don't think the two are alligned. No offence to Archer but Unai has brought in players who are consistent at a high level, with all the good will in the world that isn't Archer right now. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted August 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 4, 2023 21 minutes ago, eholm said: 100% mate - good man management form UE as per normal. It would be great if one of them could step up but at this stage its unlikley imo. Regards Diaby, again he's for the wrong profile for me to be deputising for OW for any signifcant period of time. Wouldnt bet against a CF/Forward signing/loan very late in the window.....maybe Torres or somoene of that ilk. Agree it wouldn't be a surprise - and should be someone with a bit more experience than Cam. Either someone that can deputise for Olly or someone that offers something different - more a conventional 9. Cam will be useful in certain situations and will be good to have in the squad, but in a game like yesterday where Lazio sat back, the space wasn't there and wasn't offering enough. A charitable view would be that he helped keep them pushed back and gave our midfield more space to work in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 If he does end up out on loan, then we need another striker. I could see Emery going for a more experienced back up, someone like Gerard Moreno. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 55 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Sure, it’s why I pointed out Ollie is easily/obviously the right/better option for us but I still don’t see Cam as having had a great opportunity nor deserving of much criticism after a few friendly minutes and playing with “lesser players”… He got a fair few assists at Boro and was involved in their play… He didn't do the "hold up" job, though. His involvement was more on the counter, running into the channels and then picking out Akpom. Very similar to Watkins' goal yesterday, but with a pass across. He's not the type of player we can look to knock it in to with his back to goal, as we can with Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 Interesting that people seem to think he is more of a second striker and would work better with Watkins in the Diaby role, I get that Archer has different qualities and lacks the work rate that Watkins offer, but from what I have seen of Archer he is a pure out and out striker, seems to be all about getting into positions and finishing attacks, what I've seen of him, which is limited, he has little to offer in build up play. Surely the 2nd striker role in our team is more about the build up/playing out wide, hence we signed a winger to play that role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 10 hours ago, Jas10 said: Disregarding the penalty, but simple/straightforward question: How many chances have been created for him and how many has he missed or F’d up? Needs to play with the better attacking/creative players to show what he can do… So basically you’re saying he needs it out on a plate for him to score? Not a ringing endorsement if so… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 11 hours ago, Jas10 said: Disregarding the penalty, but simple/straightforward question: How many chances have been created for him and how many has he missed or F’d up? Needs to play with the better attacking/creative players to show what he can do… In the games I've watched just the one. And really it was a first time strike after getting up from being tripped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, thabucks said: So basically you’re saying he needs it out on a plate for him to score? Not a ringing endorsement if so… not really, I just want to see what he can do in our preferred or stronger team… then we can see if he actually can cover for Ollie… Even when it’s “put on a plate” players do and have messed up those chances… I’d like to see if he can be reliable for us… I can’t make too definitive a judgment or endorse him until I see that really… Luckily I and we don’t have to, Unai knows all… Edited August 4, 2023 by Jas10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 34 minutes ago, thabucks said: So basically you’re saying he needs it out on a plate for him to score? Not a ringing endorsement if so… i dont think you can really be a prem striker these days who is just clinical in the box. You need to do much more. Ings is the only example of that i can think of. Everyone else has attributes outside, creativity, work rate, hold up play. We all (generally) excuse Watkins finishing record because of what he does off the ball. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 1 minute ago, cheltenham_villa said: i dont think you can really be a prem striker these days who is just clinical in the box. You need to do much more. Ings is the only example of that i can think of. Everyone else has attributes outside, creativity, work rate, hold up play. We all (generally) excuse Watkins finishing record because of what he does off the ball. Archer does do plenty of other stuff we jist aren't giving him the opportunity to do it. You need a quick SS in behind him to take advantage of the space he creates. Someone to support him when he makes a run in behind and someone to get on the end of the crosses he makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 Hope he gets a goal today, give him some confidence going into the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 He’s not had much game time in preseason at all. I know he had the u21s but you’d think he’d play more. I just think Emery doesn’t rate him that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 Not looking good for him 15 mins to go and still hasnt been bought on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 Just now, Demitri_C said: Not looking good for him 15 mins to go and still hasnt been bought on Yeah it suggests Unai thinks he is a long way off the starting 11. Hes coming on now, hopefully he can have an impart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 Just now, cheltenham_villa said: Yeah it suggests Unai thinks he is a long way off the starting 11. Hes coming on now, hopefully he can have an impart. I hope so thia is a big 15 mins for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 Did well with that run, good block on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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