MWARLEY2 Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Adman said: He looks ready to me. Ready for our title charge next year. He is learning quickly. All that is left is for the ball to stick a little bit more when he has his back to goal. The one weakness. But that is something that you have to learn. Its not a natural act like scoring. He wasnt assisting last season. So has assisted 6 already since Jan. He is learning his trade remarkably well. Ice cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 1 minute ago, MWARLEY2 said: He is learning quickly. All that is left is for the ball to stick a little bit more when he has his back to goal. The one weakness. But that is something that you have to learn. Its not a natural act like scoring. He wasnt assisting last season. So has assisted 6 already since Jan. He is learning his trade remarkably well. Ice cold Plus you can rely on Ollie to be playing every game, and clearly being the "main man" hasnt done his confidence any harm. Having archer as back up instead of a big signing could be perfect for everyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 48 minutes ago, Enda said: Can you explain your reasoning for this, please? xG is based on history of other players. For example, a shot from the corner of the box might have an xG of 0.1 because one-in-ten of shots from that position have gone in. If Archer is knocking in them at a higher rate because he is clinical, his goals will exceed his xG. So can you explain why is this a concern for you? It seems like great news to me! Yes, the fact that he consistently outperforms xG is *literally* what makes him an excellent finisher lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 31 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: Use the eye test with Cam. How does he finish. Is it in the corner or in the middle of the goal. Does the keeper get a hand to it . The answer to those is he finishes with deadly accuracy. He hits the corners of the goal and the goalie rarely gets a hand to it . He lashes with supreme control. As others have said he will always outperform xg because he is a better than average goalscorer As an aside how cool was it to have 2 of the top performing strikers in world football last weekend. I think Ollie got a 9.7 on whoscored and Cam got a perfect 10 I agree, hence I said mild concern as he was scoring at his xG rate for Preston and unlike older strikers we don't have enough data where he's consistently out performing his xG (like we get with the very good finishers). To me he's one of that group and he'll be an xG out performer like Watkins is becoming now he get's higher xG shots by doing what Emery has told him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 1 hour ago, DJBOB said: All good finishers will outperform his xG. Don’t think it’s a stick to use for Archer. Exactly. It's just we don't have the few seasons of data yet. What this is hopefully a better Archer at Boro than he was at Preston 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 1 hour ago, duke313 said: Never said you did. Okaay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Enda said: Can you explain your reasoning for this, please? xG is based on history of other players. For example, a shot from the corner of the box might have an xG of 0.1 because one-in-ten of shots from that position have gone in. If Archer is knocking in them at a higher rate because he is clinical, his goals will exceed his xG. So can you explain why is this a concern for you? It seems like great news to me! I think I answered this in my above post. He's only had one other short stint of data to compare too. Some players have a run of form and outscore xG and then revert to their xG over medium term. I think Archer is just one of those clinical finishers so a career of outscoring xG is ahead of him. There is a small concern only for reason stated, lack of data due to his age 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 He'll get preseason in the US and then we'll see I guess. We'll use more youngsters if we're in Europe. However, I'm pretty sure we'll be buying another senior striker in the summer too. He'll come through eventually though and there'll be no stopping him. He reminds me of Darius Vassell, but technically better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 15 minutes ago, zab6359 said: Okaay The point was that AJ and Tim can stay around without taking up one of 25 registered players. Gives us a bigger squad. Archer will need to be in the registered 25 next season, but given the size of our squad at the moment I don't think it will be an issue to include him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 54 minutes ago, MrBlack said: The point was that AJ and Tim can stay around without taking up one of 25 registered players. Gives us a bigger squad. Archer will need to be in the registered 25 next season, but given the size of our squad at the moment I don't think it will be an issue to include him. Is it under 21s or does it include players who are 21? If the latter, archer will still be 21 when season starts so may not need registered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 2 hours ago, CVByrne said: I agree, hence I said mild concern as he was scoring at his xG rate for Preston and unlike older strikers we don't have enough data where he's consistently out performing his xG (like we get with the very good finishers). To me he's one of that group and he'll be an xG out performer like Watkins is becoming now he get's higher xG shots by doing what Emery has told him I think that there is a big difference between the 2 . In that Cam is a natural finisher. Ollie has had to work so hard on it but he has had physical attributes that have allowed him to learn on the job. Theres a video on youtube of cam playing at 11 for his school team and he was finishing like he is now way back when . But with 1 working on his finishing and the orher working on his all round play i think they will end up as similar players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 I can't help think that with Villa chasing a potential European spot he could have been very useful player to have in the squad. When we let him out on loan we were just looking for a top half finish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 Imagine him with Unai’s coaching after witnessing the output he’s extracted from Ollie. Kid will be hitting Haaland numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 1 minute ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Imagine him with Unai’s coaching after witnessing the output he’s extracted from Ollie. Kid will be hitting Haaland numbers. Hes already had it .2 months with Emery before he went out to Boro. And you can see already how much more of a team player he is now. He was good at Preston 7 in 20. He is great at Boro. 9 g and 6 a in 18 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 2 hours ago, CVByrne said: Exactly. It's just we don't have the few seasons of data yet. What this is hopefully a better Archer at Boro than he was at Preston Could just be a late bloomer. Vardy historically outperformed his xG in similar fashion. Im sure the info was available, Defoe would have too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 I get the impression (from afar) that Middlesborough would prefer him to Ramsay if they went up and could only pick one, and I think him getting that amount of PL minutes would be more valuable than sitting on our bench while Watkins plays 80+ minutes every game. If they're still in the championship a loan becomes a more difficult decision, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 8 hours ago, CVByrne said: He is massively over performing his xG and xAG which is a mild concern. Boro as a whole are scoring a lot more than their xG I think Cam will be given the full time of pre season up to end of August deadline before a decision is made. If we sign 2 more players for attacking positions (I'm pretty certain we will) then Duran or Archer are surplus unless we've got Europe. He's overperforming his xG because he's a natural born finisher who can put it into the roof of the net from an awful angle. He's xG+xAG is 0.85 per 90. That's far more reflective of hsi production than xG. He's creating a tonne of high value opportunities for his teammates to score. Especially akpom and Ramsey both of whom are excellent finishers too. If it was oh he's rolling the ball out for a 25 yarder and that is why he's overperforming his xAG that would be one issue. But he's giving it to akpom inside the 18 yard box and he's burying it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 8 hours ago, zab6359 said: You don't get a bigger squad allowance if you get into Europe Yes but they are u21s so don't count to the squad limit. Archer may or may not count depending on when the cut off is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burchy Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 (edited) For 23/24 season gUnder-21 players will have been born on or after 1 January 2002 Archers birthday is 9th Dec 2001 so he’d have to be in the 25 man squad Edited April 20, 2023 by burchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 7 hours ago, MotoMkali said: Yes but they are u21s so don't count to the squad limit. Archer may or may not count depending on when the cut off is. There's your answer to that one ↓↓↓ 6 hours ago, burchy said: For 23/24 season gUnder-21 players will have been born on or after 1 January 2002 Archers birthday is 9th Dec 2001 so he’d have to be in the 25 man squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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