Douglas Luiz

[RichiBoi11]

8 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Don't see the space for another CM if he signs a new deal tbh.

Would mean we have Kamara and Luiz here for next 2-3 years playing every week, McGinn I assume will get less minutes from now on but he'll still be a regular, Ramsey, Buendia and Coutinho will be in contention for advanced midfield positions and then we have the youth coming through.

Luiz isn't signing a new deal here to get less minutes than last three seasons where he's tended to average 25-30 starts.

Would be a bit disappointed personally in that. Nothing against Doug but I don't think he's played that well consistently under Gerrard compared to DS and it just feels underwhelming. Kamara unavailable for a few weeks and we'll just be playing the same central midfield as last three seasons with all those pros and cons.

We need better than that to be in shake up for europa as the teams who finish above us do have better in central areas.

To be fair to Luiz though the concensus seems to be that he is far more suited to play as an 8 rather than a 6, but due to the injury to Nakamba he spent the majority of his time under Gerrard playing as a 6. It's a smaller sample size, but look at his performances in the games where he has been able to play as an 8, especially against City and Liverpool and those were far superior performances than the 20 plus games where he was in defensive midfield. Who's to say that those performances along with training haven't convinced Gerrard that he's good enough to warrant playing in that role and have us pushing for Europe. 

I genuinely feel like Luiz playing in an 8 would effectively be like a new signing for us, and now we have Kamara and Nakamba for the holding role you could just let Luiz play his natural game.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

The lads...

[sparrow1988]

34 minutes ago, sne said:

Not allowing myself to have hope on this one yet considering how this off season has been for me with US sports with Johnny Guadreau bailing on Calgary and the Charlotte Hornets shooting themselves in the face at the draft and having one of their star players first posting himself on social media drinking "lean" (liquid opiates) and then being thrown in jail for assaulting his wife.

Reading this I was just like...

 

[Chine]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

The lads...

Probably means nothing but in all the recent media DL doesn’t look like he’s going anywhere to me , quite the opposite

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

32 minutes ago, Chine said:

Probably means nothing but in all the recent media DL doesn’t look like he’s going anywhere to me , quite the opposite

Yeah he looks happy, and has been getting alot of spotlight features from the club.

I reckon having more South Americans and country men around will also help make them respectively more happy.

[avfc1982am]

I thought apart from the one moment in the first half giving the ball away(Which he got back) he was another that looked really good in his new role. Linked really well on the right side of the middle with Cash and Bailey. Like Kamara his quality of passing and awareness should see him starting. I much prefer him further forward as an 8. 

[Steero113]

5 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

I thought apart from the one moment in the first half giving the ball away(Which he got back) he was another that looked really good in his new role. Linked really well on the right side of the middle with Cash and Bailey. Like Kamara his quality of passing and awareness should see him starting. I much prefer him further forward as an 8. 

J. Ramsey              Luiz

                Kamara

That's what I would be starting the season with if Doug signs a new parchment. 

[TRO]

On 28/06/2022 at 15:04, villabromsgrove said:

We need to put a nailed on points scorer into to Douglas Luiz's position. It seems clear that he doesn't see his future at VP, so his commitment if he stays for one more season has to be called into question.

I've looked at the "points possibilities" of those players who could play alongside Boubacar Kamara and come up with a brief rundown of key contributions last season.

2021/2022 season.

The base line is Douglas Luiz's own stats .... goals scored 2, assists 3.

Jacob Ramsey .... goals scored 5, assists 1.

John McGinn .... goals scored 3, assists 4.

Tomas Soucek .... goals scored 5, assists 1.

Conor Gallagher .... goals scored 8, assists 3.

James Ward Prowse .... goals scored 10 (4 penalties), assists 5.

On the basis that goals and assists can add to a teams points total, we need to factor the added (possible total points) value into filling the key position of CM. We need the roundest peg we can afford for this very round hole.

 

I don't see us bombing on, with DL in midfield....just simply based on what I see.

I am not convinced by him, never have been really.

I don't see the tenacity and urgency in his game, to disrupt opponents, sure I see good passing and a calmness in his game, but that calmness can lead to getting caught in possesion and losing it...he did it once again, against Leeds in an awkward position, that caused panic.

Contract rebels never endear themselves to me .....and doubts about their commitment linger with me.

I understand negotiations have to take place.....but when they drag on, it raises doubt.

No bothered if he leaves, as long as we sign better.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't see us bombing on, with DL in midfield....just simply based on what I see.

I am not convinced by him, never have been really.

I don't see the tenacity and urgency in his game, to disrupt opponents, sure I see good passing and a calmness in his game, but that calmness can lead to getting caught in possesion and losing it...he did it once again, against Leeds in an awkward position, that caused panic.

Contract rebels never endear themselves to me .....and doubts about their commitment linger with me.

I understand negotiations have to take place.....but when they drag on, it raises doubt.

No bothered if he leaves, as long as we sign better....I think we need an upgrade here...as with Sanson.

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by TRO

[sne]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

Contract rebels never endear themselves to me .....and doubts about their commitment linger with me.

How do you feel about Kamara?

[TRO]

On 17/07/2022 at 12:59, avfc1982am said:

I thought apart from the one moment in the first half giving the ball away(Which he got back) he was another that looked really good in his new role. Linked really well on the right side of the middle with Cash and Bailey. Like Kamara his quality of passing and awareness should see him starting. I much prefer him further forward as an 8. 

Problem is, its a common feature of his game.....and last season, giving the ball away like that, in that position, led to us conceding unnecessary goals.

Like Mings, its not a one off....its a regular feature.

[TRO]

20 minutes ago, sne said:

How do you feel about Kamara?

The same as I will if he does it to us.

Well, we are the beneficiary here, so if you can't beat them join them....but that doesn't make me anymore comfortable, with these situations.

maybe, we avoided Sonny Perkins for a similar reason.

but we will have to wait and see.....he has just joined and in the happy zone, right now.

We will see as time takes its toll.

Edited July 19, 2022 by TRO

[avfc1982am]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

Problem is, its a common feature of his game.....and last season, giving the ball away like that, in that position, led to us conceding unnecessary goals.

Like Mings, its not a one off....its a regular feature.

What games did he give the ball away leading to the opposition scoring? I'm interested because I think your wrong. 

If anything Luiz is one of the best retainers of the ball in the team. He has areas to improve without doubt but I don't see a calamitous player that gives the ball away very often leading to opposition goals.

Please correct me though?  

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

What games did he give the ball away leading to the opposition scoring? I'm interested because I think your wrong. 

If anything Luiz is one of the best retainers of the ball in the team. He has areas to improve without doubt but I don't see a calamitous player that gives the ball away very often leading to opposition goals.

Please correct me though?  

How can I correct you, unless I trawl through every instance.....and I'm not going to do that.....but I already told you the Leeds instance was not good.....it creates panic, even if it doesn't directly lead to goals.

Thats your opinion and I respect it......mine differs from yours.

A calamitous player is hyperbole.....I didn't suggest that.

I think him and Mcginn get caught with the ball, a tad too often for my liking.....I'm just not a big fan.

I don't think we will go far, with him in the team.....but I could be wrong.

Edited July 19, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

What games did he give the ball away leading to the opposition scoring? I'm interested because I think your wrong. 

If anything Luiz is one of the best retainers of the ball in the team. without doubt He has areas to improve but I don't see a calamitous player that gives the ball away very often leading to opposition goals.

Please correct me though?  

where do YOU think he has area's to improve?

[Philosopher]

43 minutes ago, TRO said:

Problem is, its a common feature of his game.....and last season, giving the ball away like that, in that position, led to us conceding unnecessary goals.

Like Mings, its not a one off....its a regular feature.

If he is playing as an 8 he has more leeway if he does give the ball away. Usually Doug gives the ball away because he is trying to retain possession instead of giving the ball away. In a DM role this is problematic when it happens. When it happens is key. As when he retains possession in these situations, conversely we benefit. And in actuality we have benefited a lot from his ability to retain possession and play out. When he didn't play last season our control of the ball was poor, and we were lucky to see 40 percent possession.

For me having a b2b player give the ball away because he is trying not give the ball straight back to opposition is fine, as these events are rare occurances anyway. Mcginn however gives the ball away because of lax short passing, going for overly ambitious direct balls, or just plain hoofing without even looking up. I know which I prefer. Going forward Mcginn acts like a 10 when he isn't good enough to play 10. He should focus more on keep the ball, and keeping it moving. Doug will do this. 

Doug is also good a fouling! He is very good at disrupting opponents with fouls that don't get himself booked. This actually alieviates a lot of pressure and stops dangerous moments. He has that dirtiest in his game. He will protect our defense much better than Mcginn, because he can tackle too. He tends to come a cropper when trying to stop bigger, stronger, and faster players but thats the same for most midfielders. As an 8 he can be a more defense oriented and allow JJ or even Mcginn to play as offensive 8's. He will be a very important player for us if he stays, which I expect.

Mings on the ther hand has been playing as both a stopper and a covering defender at the same time as doing all the ball playing. Now we have Carlos we can spread some of the risk out between them, and Mings will be all the better for it I'm sure.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Philosopher

[avfc1982am]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

How can I correct you, unless I trawl through every instance.....and I'm not going to do that.....but I already told you the Leeds instance was not good.....it creates panic, even if it doesn't directly lead to goals.

Thats your opinion and I respect it......mine differs from yours.

A calamitous player is hyperbole.....I didn't suggest that.

I think him and Mcginn get caught with the ball, a tad too often for my liking.....I'm just not a big fan.

So you picked one instance and decided to label the lad with a tag of giving the ball away too often?! I think that's very harsh tbh. 

I would put money on it that Luiz is one of the best players in the squad for not giving the ball away, in fact the best of our midfielders prior to Kamara arriving. 

 

 

[AndyM3000]

On 17/07/2022 at 18:39, Steero113 said:

J. Ramsey              Luiz

                Kamara

That's what I would be starting the season with if Doug signs a new parchment. 

This is what I'd like to see when we are trying to dominate the game/ball. If we are playing a top team or a difficult away match then this is when I'd like to see McGinn come in. There should be lots of room for minutes now with 5 subs.

[avfc1982am]

18 minutes ago, TRO said:

where do YOU think he has area's to improve?

Chance creation and goal scoring. Also I think he needs to work on core strength a little in the tussle but he is growing. 

I've always thought of him as an 8 anyway and I think he has far more in his locker then we have tapped into using him as a DM.

[Condimentalist]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I don't see us bombing on, with DL in midfield....just simply based on what I see.

I am not convinced by him, never have been really.

I don't see the tenacity and urgency in his game, to disrupt opponents, sure I see good passing and a calmness in his game, but that calmness can lead to getting caught in possesion and losing it...he did it once again, against Leeds in an awkward position, that caused panic.

Contract rebels never endear themselves to me .....and doubts about their commitment linger with me.

I understand negotiations have to take place.....but when they drag on, it raises doubt.

No bothered if he leaves, as long as we sign better.

 

 

I'm not sure Doug has actually been offered a new deal. 

We'll see. I'd rather he stayed and Sanson left but if we are confident we can upgrade in that position I think it would make a big difference.

Could see it all happening later in the window though - I think Luiz will continue to play regularly in pre-season and if he starts the season well we might leave just try to re-sign him rather than going out to the market.