Racism Part two

[Stevo985]

18 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

I was making the point that his actions in the game in a very racist era in the development and support of black footballers are in total conflict with his words he used regarding Makélélé. 

 

 

Ok. I thought you were making the point that despite what he said, he was far from being racist

Sorry if I misunderstood

[sheepyvillian]

I think a bunch of white guys trying to mark on a scale of ten what's more or less offensive racially to black people, is as ironic as it gets.  Yes, white people can say that's racist, what they can't do is decide for themselves what's, "not that bad" and what is bad. How would you know if you have never experienced racism yourself. 

It's an insult to even suggest you can put yourself into the shoes of a Black person suffering racism, hence the laughing emoji.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, lexicon said:

Would it not be better for people to understand that we live in a globalised world and just not do blackface? What does anyone really lose? 

Its not something I would do, as I accept some folk will take it the wrong way, maybe be Monchie didn't see the danger....its about being aware of sensitivity, and that all folk react differently.

But This globalised world is moving in a direction, that folk for all sorts of reasons, get offended much easier that they did years ago....not saying which one is right, but we do seem generally more sensitive as a species.

FWIW....I was very disapponted in RA's comments at the time, too and I wouldn't condone that.....but thats just my interpretation. I accept my interpretation on anything, is not necessarily the same as the next mans.

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by TRO

[Davkaus]

19 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

I think a bunch of white guys trying to mark on a scale of ten what's more or less offensive racially to black people, is as ironic as it gets.  Yes, white people can say that's racist, what they can't do is decide for themselves what's, "not that bad" and what is bad. How would you know if you have never experienced racism yourself. 

It's an insult to even suggest you can put yourself into the shoes of a Black person suffering racism, hence the laughing emoji.

My 0-10 scale was a bit tongue in cheek

I completely disagree that it's an insult to exercise a bit of empathy and attempt to understand how racist/potentially racist comments are perceived

[Guest av1]

I remember having a debate with someone a few years ago that tried to say ‘Paki’ wasn’t racist, it just an abbreviation of Pakistani (there is a post above on the same subject) 

The guy I spoke to simply didn’t understand that words evolve, so whilst it may have started out as a non racial abbreviation, it is now very much a discriminatory word used by racists. 

There obviously is historical differences in attitudes, that’s why whilst I don’t find humour in it, I’m cautious of claiming 1970’s sitcom script writers are racist for some of the stuff that clearly isn’t acceptable in modern society. We’re much more educated now though so I see little excuse. 
 

Like most things in life, I don’t understand why it’s so flipping difficult to just be nice to each other. 
 

 

 

[ml1dch]

38 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

I was making the point that his actions in the game in a very racist era in the development and support of black footballers are in total conflict with his words he used regarding Makélélé. 

These French footballers, they all look the...

[tomav84]

30 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

I think a bunch of white guys trying to mark on a scale of ten what's more or less offensive racially to black people, is as ironic as it gets.  Yes, white people can say that's racist, what they can't do is decide for themselves what's, "not that bad" and what is bad. How would you know if you have never experienced racism yourself. 

It's an insult to even suggest you can put yourself into the shoes of a Black person suffering racism, hence the laughing emoji.

why can't we? we can read, we can see what has happened throughout history, we can listen to the experiences of people of colour, and we can then empathise and understand how and why certain language can be deemed offensive.

my (american) boss once asked us in a team meeting how many times we've been pulled over by the police...a few of us said once, twice, some said none. he had been pulled over around a dozen times before his 18th birthday and told us of other similar experiences he's had. it had some of us in tears. are you saying we can't put ourselves in his shoes and think about how horrible that must've been to experience? surely it's by doing just that that we become a more tolerant society?

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

When the dressing up for an historical event, requires a black face......

Then get an actual black face rather than blacking up for it? 

[fruitvilla]

21 minutes ago, av1 said:

We’re much more educated now

I am not seeing though. 

[Follyfoot]

20 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

These French footballers, they all look the...

No idea where that came from

[Guest av1]

11 minutes ago, fruitvilla said:

I am not seeing though. 

That doesn’t apply to everyone obviously, and there is sadly still an awful lot of prejudice in the world, but my post was talking about the 1970’s and I’ll happily debate that society is far more educated on the subject now than it was then. 

[VILLAMARV]

2 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

If you're not black, then how would you know what scale it falls under?

 

2 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

The irony is certainly not lost on me when I see white people trying to decide what's racially offensive and what's not to black people..

As I alluded to in a recent post, the fact this thread exists is proof of the sad state of this issue. The hypocrisy is also widespread. Jim Smith pontificating on the very subject, whose the next guest on the phone? Lee Bowyer, smh.

 

1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said:

I think a bunch of white guys trying to mark on a scale of ten what's more or less offensive racially to black people, is as ironic as it gets.  Yes, white people can say that's racist, what they can't do is decide for themselves what's, "not that bad" and what is bad. How would you know if you have never experienced racism yourself. 

It's an insult to even suggest you can put yourself into the shoes of a Black person suffering racism, hence the laughing emoji.

What on earth are you talking about?

[sheepyvillian]

56 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

 

 

What on earth are you talking about?

Go to the John Terry thread , maybe that will give you an idea. 

[VILLAMARV]

18 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Go to the John Terry thread , maybe that will give you an idea. 

nope, just a load of stuff about leicester and nft fraud

[TRO]

2 hours ago, lexicon said:

Then get an actual black face rather than blacking up for it? 

maybe there was other attributes they wanted that wasn't readily available.....I'm just speculating without prejudice.

But lets say, they did that......then some would say, Oh youv'e only chosen him/her because they are black.....you see, you just can't win sometimes.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, lexicon said:

Then get an actual black face rather than blacking up for it? 

It happens the other way around too.....I'm not offended as it is probably in context.

we can't turn this in to a monologue....I'm out.

Edited June 26, 2023 by TRO

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

It happens the other way around too.....I'm not offended as it is probably in context.

we can't turn this in to a monolgue....I'm out.

It's a shame for you to leave without actually having read or understood anything anyone has been saying. Baron Samedi the same as blackface ffs. 

 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

I think a bunch of white guys trying to mark on a scale of ten what's more or less offensive racially to black people, is as ironic as it gets.  Yes, white people can say that's racist, what they can't do is decide for themselves what's, "not that bad" and what is bad. How would you know if you have never experienced racism yourself. 

It's an insult to even suggest you can put yourself into the shoes of a Black person suffering racism, hence the laughing emoji.

I agree....but this debate was instigated by someone being offended, by Monchie wearing a black face for an historical event in spain.

We are in danger of drifting off the point.

To debate Racism, it would end up like " War & Peace"......There are far more intellectual people than us, have no answers to how the species responds to difference.

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, lexicon said:

It's a shame for you to leave without actually having read or understood anything anyone has been saying. Baron Samedi the same as blackface ffs. 

 

Perhaps I don't understand the point.......just the one I think your making.

[sheepyvillian]

8 hours ago, tomav84 said:

why can't we? we can read, we can see what has happened throughout history, we can listen to the experiences of people of colour, and we can then empathise and understand how and why certain language can be deemed offensive.

my (american) boss once asked us in a team meeting how many times we've been pulled over by the police...a few of us said once, twice, some said none. he had been pulled over around a dozen times before his 18th birthday and told us of other similar experiences he's had. it had some of us in tears. are you saying we can't put ourselves in his shoes and think about how horrible that must've been to experience? surely it's by doing just that that we become a more tolerant society?

Honestly, a more tolerant society? Black people are getting shot in America for being black to this day. Just because you felt sympathy and shed tears you still can't say, "I know how you feel", that's my point. You can never know that feeling,  for the very fact that you're white. 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by sheepyvillian