PaulC Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Just now, Keyblade said: I just know I'm going to regret googling this. why great song by 10cc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, PaulC said: So would anyone consider Dreadlock Holiday racist? Is Dreadlock Holiday the new Jags rookie TE because I stopped paying attention after round 4 of the draft ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 12, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, PaulC said: why dreadful song by 10cc Fixed that for you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 33 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Which of these two has caused you to express opinions the most? Again, this is an argument I find quite disingenuous. Nobody is saying the deaths of people in Grenfell is a good thing. There's inherently less debate about such an appalling scenario. It shouldn't be used in an attempt to silence or shame people with genuine and understandable reservations about the actions of some protesters. A statue isn't as important as discrimination based on race though, is it? Yeah, no shit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Again, this is an argument I find quite disingenuous. Nobody is saying the deaths of people in Grenfell is a good thing. There's inherently less debate about such an appalling scenario. It shouldn't be used in an attempt to silence or shame people with genuine and understandable reservations about the actions of some protesters. A statue isn't as important as discrimination based on race though, is it? Yeah, no shit. You’re right, nobody is saying Grenfell was a good thing, I’m a bit confused where you got that from? As for inherently less debate, why’s that then? Why are we letting them get away with doing nothing years later? Why have they been more moved by spray paint than flammable housing? Why can people be put in buildings they can’t get out of that are too high for fire fighting equipment? Could it be people aren’t bothered enough to ask why it hasn’t been resolved years later? It’s not a big enough deal that people are still living in these buildings? People are still going to bed at night reliant on a fire warden staying awake? Why would that be discussed less than whether someone got paint on a statue? But thanks for putting me straight on priorities, no shit, cheers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only2McInallys Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) Why does racism still exist?Fear and ignorance mainly. How do we eradicate it ?Not by going round tearing statues down. When slavery was abolished after the civil war in the US many laws were passed to protect the rights of freed slaves.The only problem was that many in the Deep South just ignored them because they were scared about what might happen. Winning the “hearts and minds “ of the minority in this country who still hold racist views is not going to be helped by tearing down statues of Churchill.A man many would agree held racist views but symbolised this countries defiance against the Nazis.If anything those people are going hold their racist views more strongly. Peaceful dignified marches are the answer. Edited June 12, 2020 by Only2McInallys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 The point about people saying it was a good thing was rather inherent to my post. Some people do think vandalising these statues is a good thing. When there are two sides that each feel strongly about their views, there's more discussion and more debate. I don't feel the need to post about atrocities like Grenfell anymore than I post with breaking news that water is wet. Contended points get more discussion. It's complete bullshit to suggest people care more about something just because it prompts more discussion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, Only2McInallys said: Peaceful dignified marches are the answer. No, they aren't. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Just now, HanoiVillan said: No, they aren't. Sure it's more convenient for those in power of you protest nicely and quietly in a place out of the way, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Sure it's more convenient for those in power of you protest nicely and quietly in a place out of the way, though. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Sure it's more convenient for those in power of you protest nicely and quietly in a place out of the way, though. Didn't you post in indignation about people protesting in Nottingham blocking roads for people going to work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 12, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: No, they aren't. Agreed. Been thinking about this a lot. I don’t particularly agree with tearing a statue down unlawfully. But how many of these things through the ages have started with something unlawful and ended in good? It’s a really hard balance to strike, or even to discuss. But sometimes it’s the only way. If tearing that one statue down now leads to a lot of other questionable statues being lawfully taken down, can we really look back on the tearing down of that statue as a bad thing? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I think that the police made a mistake not intervening in pulling the statue down in Bristol. Now people seem to think it’s open season and they can do what they like with regards to statues they don’t agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: Agreed. Been thinking about this a lot. I don’t particularly agree with tearing a statue down unlawfully. But how many of these things through the ages have started with something unlawful and ended in good? It’s a really hard balance to strike, or even to discuss. But sometimes it’s the only way. If tearing that one statue down now leads to a lot of other questionable statues being lawfully taken down, can we really look back on the tearing down of that statue as a bad thing? You're right. It's a difficult question. Most people are not in favour of law breaking even if they think there's a real injustice taking place. For those that condemn any form of civil disobedience or law breaking, one wonders about the leaps forward that society has taken on the back of various law-breaking efforts and, sometimes, outright criminal behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 12, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Genie said: I think that the police made a mistake not intervening in pulling the statue down in Bristol. Now people seem to think it’s open season and they can do what they like with regards to statues they don’t agree with. Do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, snowychap said: Didn't you post in indignation about people protesting in Nottingham blocking roads for people going to work? Almost certainly. It's effective. That doesn't mean it doesn't annoy me if I'm late for work! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: Do they? I think so judging by the damage done to so many already and the shopping list that has been drawn up for the others. If the police had stepped in I’m sure it wouldn’t have been pretty but it would have at least shown people can’t just make criminal damage without consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: Almost certainly. It's effective. That doesn't mean it doesn't annoy me if I'm late for work! Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) I get pulling down statues of slave traders. Totally understand it. But vandalising a statute that millions of British people see as a as national hero is going to create more divisions than it will unity. It needs to remain covered for quite a while I reckon. Edited June 12, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I get pulling down statues of slave traders. Totally understand it. But vandalising a statute that millions of British people see as a as national hero is going to create more divisions than it will unity. It needs to remain covered for quite a while I reckon. I think it's important to recognise it's a fringe group of nutters who want to target things like the Churchill statue or the cenotaph and not even a significant minority of the protestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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