Keyblade Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 50 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I don't get the notion that he has been treated disgracefully. We bought him and pay his very significant wages, its a job, not a marriage. Neither current nor previous managers saw him as a first team player, yes that is hard on the lad but that's just the way it worked out. What are we supposed to do? Is he really so bad in training that Gerrard has deemed that he isn't good enough as a backup without ever playing him competitively? Did he even play in any of our preseason games. I don't even think he traveled to Australia. Don't think anyone, not even Fred is suggesting he should be in the team without question but he at least deserves a fair shake at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Is he really so bad in training that Gerrard has deemed that he isn't good enough as a backup without ever playing him competitively? Did he even play in any of our preseason games. I don't even think he traveled to Australia. Don't think anyone, not even Fred is suggesting he should be in the team without question but he at least deserves a fair shake at it. Clearly both Gerrard and Deano think so as he didn't fit into either of their plans. Is the suggestion that Fred is actually a good RB for the Premier League and the problem is that Gerrard is badly managing him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Clearly both Gerrard and Deano think so as he didn't fit into either of their plans. Is the suggestion that Fred is actually a good RB for the Premier League and the problem is that Gerrard is badly managing him? I don't know if he's a good PL RB, I'm saying is it possible for Gerrard to know this too without ever playing him? . First thought is maybe his loan was a disaster...but then it wasn't. I've seen players excised from their manager's plans, but never after they've not kicked a ball under them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: I don't know if he's a good PL RB, I'm saying is it possible for Gerrard to know this too without ever playing him? . First thought is maybe his loan was a disaster...but then it wasn't. I've seen players excised from their manager's plans, but never after they've not kicked a ball under them. There is clearly some issue that is preventing Fred getting in the 1st team. It was the same with Deano too. It could well be non footballing related, I just don't know. But I am fairly confident that a problem exists as I just can't imagine Deano not playing him for no good reason. In France he appears to play well, I haven't seen him play but I think he was in the Lique 1 team of the year last season. I think all the fans like Fred (me included) as his social media comments are always very positive about Villa and anytime I have seen him in Claret & Blue he has looked a decent player. But, two managers over the course of 2 or 3 years haven't been swayed to put him in the first team squad says to me there is a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, jim said: Really? He’s still getting paid. Two managers have deemed him not good enough and by all accounts has been told this would be happening. I highly doubt we have blocked moves for him. I always find it difficult to have any sympathy for a millionaire footballer who is being paid regardless. Money isn't everything though? Mental health is extremely important, but you don't need me to tell you that. Fred has always come across as a very straight talking guy to me. I get the impression he's been left in the dark a lot at Villa. And I don't mean by him not being played, I get the impression he's not being told what the hell his situation is. Edited September 9, 2022 by Tom13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said: There is clearly some issue that is preventing Fred getting in the 1st team. It was the same with Deano too. It could well be non footballing related, I just don't know. But I am fairly confident that a problem exists as I just can't imagine Deano not playing him for no good reason. In France he appears to play well, I haven't seen him play but I think he was in the Lique 1 team of the year last season. I think all the fans like Fred (me included) as his social media comments are always very positive about Villa and anytime I have seen him in Claret & Blue he has looked a decent player. But, two managers over the course of 2 or 3 years haven't been swayed to put him in the first team squad says to me there is a problem He did make almost 30 appearances for Deano, so you can at least point to it being a footballing decision there. We also upgraded on him and bought Cash, so he was loaned out. It made sense. When a new manager comes in you expect them to try out all the players at their disposal to see if they could use him. Maybe there is something else behind the scenes because it makes no sense that he wouldn't at least want to try him out as back up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: He did make almost 30 appearances for Deano, so you can at least point to it being a footballing decision there. We also upgraded on him and bought Cash, so he was loaned out. It made sense. When a new manager comes in you expect them to try out all the players at their disposal to see if they could use him. Maybe there is something else behind the scenes because it makes no sense that he wouldn't at least want to try him out as back up. I didn't realise he had played 30 times for Deano. I have something in my head that always wondered why Fred is not getting in the squad. There have been times under Deano or SG that I thought Fred would be ideal on the bench and coming on as a sub or evening starting games but it didn't happen. I think there is something dodgy there, hence my suggestion it may not be football related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 11 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I didn't realise he had played 30 times for Deano. I have something in my head that always wondered why Fred is not getting in the squad. There have been times under Deano or SG that I thought Fred would be ideal on the bench and coming on as a sub or evening starting games but it didn't happen. I think there is something dodgy there, hence my suggestion it may not be football related He was pretty much first choice in our first season up. Then we upgraded, and we were happy to let him go on loan to play football. It happens, it's football. Cash is just better than him. But I think 2 years removed from that and 2 good loans I think he has no issues with being second choice and pushing Cash for the shirt, but he never got a chance to even do that. His social media posts imply he's as surprised as anyone else, which if it weren't football related I think he'd know the reason behind it right? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Keyblade said: He was pretty much first choice in our first season up. Then we upgraded, and we were happy to let him go on loan to play football. It happens, it's football. Cash is just better than him. But I think 2 years removed from that and 2 good loans I think he has no issues with being second choice and pushing Cash for the shirt, but he never got a chance to even do that. His social media posts imply he's as surprised as anyone else, which if it weren't football related I think he'd know the reason behind it right? But why would Deano have let him go on loan, that's the bit I don't get. If he is happy to push Cash for the shirt and there are no issues I can't understand why he was not kept at Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Just now, Peter Griffin said: But why would Deano have let him go on loan, that's the bit I don't get. If he is happy to push Cash for the shirt and there are no issues I can't understand why he was not kept at Villa I think it's been enough time since his first loan that it's clear, even to him, that he's not going to usurp Cash...at least under Deano in 2021. It might not have been that way to him initially which is why he left to be first choice in France. But since he's come back (on 2 occasions now), he's always indicated that he's happy to play for us so I imagine his position on being #2 has softened in the last couple of years. But then he's not even #2 right now. Or #3 or #4 it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Just now, Keyblade said: I think it's been enough time since his first loan that it's clear, even to him, that he's not going to usurp Cash...at least under Deano in 2021. It might not have been that way to him initially which is why he left to be first choice in France. But since he's come back (on 2 occasions now), he's always indicated that he's happy to play for us so I imagine his position on being #2 has softened in the last couple of years. But then he's not even #2 right now. Or #3 or #4 it seems. Fred is the one player at Villa in the last number of years that poses some unanswerable questions for me. Everyone else it is fairly easy to see what is going on, even if it requires reading between the line e.g. I think SG would like to replace Mings, I just can't get my head around the Fred situation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said: Fred is the one player at Villa in the last number of years that poses some unanswerable questions for me. Everyone else it is fairly easy to see what is going on, even if it requires reading between the line e.g. I think SG would like to replace Mings, I just can't get my head around the Fred situation I think the problem for Fred is he couldn't get a loan/permanent move this time around. All the other guys in the bomb squad (not sure why we even have one in 2022, but that's another topic) got moves so they aren't in this awkward situation. Like Traore for example. He only got sub appearances here and there after a lengthy injury, which apparently was enough to decide he wasn't good enough. But he got his loan move away so it's all forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: I think the problem for Fred is he couldn't get a loan/permanent move this time around. All the other guys in the bomb squad (not sure why we even have one in 2022, but that's another topic) got moves so they aren't in this awkward situation. Like Traore for example. He only got sub appearances here and there after a lengthy injury, which apparently was enough to decide he wasn't good enough. But he got his loan move away so it's all forgotten. Again, that cause me more confusion. His wages are not that big and he played regular football last season. Why couldn't he get a loan. If we can sell Trez and ElGhazi and get Traore, Davis and Hause out on loan, what the f**k is wrong with Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 33 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I didn't realise he had played 30 times for Deano. I have something in my head that always wondered why Fred is not getting in the squad. There have been times under Deano or SG that I thought Fred would be ideal on the bench and coming on as a sub or evening starting games but it didn't happen. I think there is something dodgy there, hence my suggestion it may not be football related His first game was home to Everton and he was excellent, slide tackling near the end like Delaney at his peak. Also hit a lovely cross for one of the goals at home to Burnley a month later. I rate him similar to Engels, really good when he first broke into the team but as the months passed his weaknesses started to get exposed and he produced some poor performances. Still started the league cup final IIRC so wasn't completely out of favour. Problem the second season was not being out of favour after Cash came in and hit the ground running but AEM being given another 12 months and being back up so he just lost time being 3rd choice. If we'd loaned him out straight away his value would've stayed intact and he could've left there and then. With Kesler coming through I think that's part of the reason so plan is obviously just to have Young as cheap experienced back up for one more year so guess Gerrard just assumed he'd have left by now so now is (wrongly) acting accordingly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 17 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: But why would Deano have let him go on loan, that's the bit I don't get. If he is happy to push Cash for the shirt and there are no issues I can't understand why he was not kept at Villa We gave Elmo a new 12 month deal as he finished the staying up season very strongly with run of games and he was Cash's backup for start of the new one so writing was on the wall for Freddie back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 minute ago, VillaChris said: We gave Elmo a new 12 month deal as he finished the staying up season very strongly with run of games and he was Cash's backup for start of the new one so writing was on the wall for Freddie back then. I had forgotten that, I had actually completely forgotten about Elmo . Giving Elmo the extension was probably the precursor to these problems and getting stuck with a player that doesn't contribute to the 1st team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 49 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Again, that cause me more confusion. His wages are not that big and he played regular football last season. Why couldn't he get a loan. If we can sell Trez and ElGhazi and get Traore, Davis and Hause out on loan, what the f**k is wrong with Fred Maybe there is some appearance/loyalty bonus in his contract he is not willing to waive or something like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaphan04 Posted September 9, 2022 Author Share Posted September 9, 2022 If its a case of not having enough room to register him, then fair enough (not 100% sure on how much homegrown registered players we need. But looking through that, it says we are only using 23/25 of the slots, so you really have to question why is he not being registered if he could be and there is no difference. That would be disgracefully dumb -- especially if we get hit with injuries. And got to say, it's interesting that it is Guilbert being left out and not Sanson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stegzy Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Don’t see why he couldn’t have taken Steers place in the squad (unless there is a 3 keeper rule) as we could easily play an U21 keeper in the the unlikely event that both keepers are injured. He seems like the type that just wants to play football too so this must be a real kick in the teeth that he now cannot play for 4 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Villaphan04 said: If its a case of not having enough room to register him, then fair enough (not 100% sure on how much homegrown registered players we need. But looking through that, it says we are only using 23/25 of the slots, so you really have to question why is he not being registered if he could be and there is no difference. That would be disgracefully dumb -- especially if we get hit with injuries. Agreed. It costs nothing to register him, gives us an option, potentially helps keep a bit of value if he does get some game time I'd love to know what's going on at BMH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts