Cristiano Ronaldo Vs Lionel Messi 2018/19

[Stevo985]

I can’t say if Maradonna was better because I’ve never watched Maradonna play football. 

I’ve seen quite a few highlights of him playing. But that’s it. 

So I can’t really compare, for the same reason I asked someone earlier in the thread how many times they’d seen Pele play when they said he was the greatest. 

 

If if someone who has watched both Maradonna and Messi play says Maradonna was better then I’ll take their word for it. 

But there’s no way the reason he is better is because he’s won the World Cup. 

[Mat Kendrick's Dentist]

5 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

It only works one way don't you know.  You concentrate on the few ways Maradona or whoever has a better record but ignore the many more ways Messi has achieved more.  Fact is he scores more goals than the greatest goalscorers of all time whilst being as creative as any attacking midfielder there's ever been.  Nobody has ever been as good as him.

Agreed. Particularly when he's been at pretty much the same insane level for 12 years.

[Mat Kendrick's Dentist]

4 minutes ago, sne said:

Back then u had to win the league to play in the European Cup and the format was completely different.

Now you are guarantied 6 games for just stumbling in at 4th in the domestic league. 

Over all there are much more games in a season compared to in Maradona's days.

Utterly pointless to compare players from different eras anyway, and so much about football has changed since the 80's.

Maradona, Messi, Ronaldo... All amazing players.

 

Agree that the format was different, and the quality lower given that all the minnow countries had a representative. That said, Maradona couldn't drag his team past the likes of mighty Metz and Spartak Moscow when he got his chance. Also agree with them all being amazing players, it just gets my "GOAT" when the knives are out any time Messi's team loses a game, as if Maradona had no blemishes in his career. 

[sne]

10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I can’t say if Maradonna was better because I’ve never watched Maradonna play football. 

I’ve seen quite a few highlights of him playing. But that’s it. 

So I can’t really compare, for the same reason I asked someone earlier in the thread how many times they’d seen Pele play when they said he was the greatest. 

 

If if someone who has watched both Maradonna and Messi play says Maradonna was better then I’ll take their word for it. 

But there’s no way the reason he is better is because he’s won the World Cup. 

Having seen both I can say that Maradona looked just as out of this world as Messi does.

With that said Messi is obviously better as the game has evolved. U can only face the challenged u face in the era u play.

For example Maradona constantly, every game had at least one or two players in the opposing team that tried to break his legs. Every single game.

But on the other hand Messi is playing 70 games a season and is still able to be dominant in 65 of those.

Maradona would likely not been able to do that. Especially after he wen't all in on blow.

And on the other hand the gap between the big rich clubs and the competition has grown to a ridiculous level now while back in Maradona's days a club from Sweden could go all the way and win a European cup.

Barcelona these days will always be more or less the best team in the world-

And so on...

Edited May 9, 2019 by sne

[A'Villan]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I can’t say if Maradonna was better because I’ve never watched Maradonna play football. 

I’ve seen quite a few highlights of him playing. But that’s it. 

So I can’t really compare, for the same reason I asked someone earlier in the thread how many times they’d seen Pele play when they said he was the greatest. 

 

If if someone who has watched both Maradonna and Messi play says Maradonna was better then I’ll take their word for it. 

But there’s no way the reason he is better is because he’s won the World Cup. 

From what I have seen of Maradonna, he has better close control than Messi. Believe it or not..

Messi has the superior passing range. Both can curl in free-kicks like Messi's vs Liverpool..

It's close and they both strike me as similar players in the way they play.

 

[A'Villan]

And for what it's worth. Messi had two beautiful, thread the needle passes to play in Suarez and Coutinho. The finish just went begging on both occasions.

That would have been one or two crucial goals that made it improbable for Liverpool to rescue the deficit, and would've sent Barcelona on to face Tottenham.

 

[sne]

Think everyone agrees that Wayne Gretzsky it the GOAT in hockey.

But had he played 10-15 years earlier he would have been beaten to a pulp every game as there was no protection for players in the 70's. They would have killed him.

Had he played today he would have been too slow and weak to dominate even with his amazing talent.

You really should not compare players from different areas too closely.

[Zatman]

35 minutes ago, Mat Kendrick's Dentist said:

Agree that the format was different, and the quality lower given that all the minnow countries had a representative. That said, Maradona couldn't drag his team past the likes of mighty Metz and Spartak Moscow when he got his chance. Also agree with them all being amazing players, it just gets my "GOAT" when the knives are out any time Messi's team loses a game, as if Maradona had no blemishes in his career. 

Well was different back then. Was unseedeed and away trips were gruellimg unlike private jets today especially into Iron Curtain

[A'Villan]

On 08/05/2019 at 18:31, NurembergVillan said:

If Barcelona are standing tall, Messi stands tallest. If Ronaldo's team are on their arses, he lifts every single one of them back to their feet.

No, but I don't think Ronaldo would've been standing with his hands on his hips looking forlorn immediately after the goal, either.  He'd have been furiously geeing everyone up to get a goal.

Messi is one of the greatest players we'll ever see, but you'd never be able to call him a leader.  Yet here he is, captain of one of the most important teams in the world.

Strongly disagree with this.

A leader is not allowed a few moments to take in a significant blow to everything he has spent the year working toward?

Besides, Liverpool were off celebrating. Messi's going to go over an attempt to drag XI fully grown men who just happen to be pro athletes away from their celebration?

In front of the Klopp end? That would get him real far..

I agree that Ronaldo has a more passionate demeanor than Messi. But being animated isn't the only way of expressing and actualising desired outcomes.

I have listened to Messi in multiple interviews and while he is not the most profound person I have ever heard speak, he doesn't need to be.

A good leader just needs to be human and remember what it means to be just that, so that he/she can serve others in the community to create a world we want to be apart of.

My experience, players who motivate through brute like aggression, and shouting at their teammates, are the first to highlight how much better they are than them too.

You don't want to let them down because you understand what they bring to the table, that they've earned their seat, but man dialogue can get difficult when a hero gets 'furious'

[Pelle]

1 hour ago, sne said:

Having seen both I can say that Maradona looked just as out of this world as Messi does.

With that said Messi is obviously better as the game has evolved. U can only face the challenged u face in the era u play.

For example Maradona constantly, every game had at least one or two players in the opposing team that tried to break his legs. Every single game.

But on the other hand Messi is playing 70 games a season and is still able to be dominant in 65 of those.

Maradona would likely not been able to do that. Especially after he wen't all in on blow.

And on the other hand the gap between the big rich clubs and the competition has grown to a ridiculous level now while back in Maradona's days a club from Sweden could go all the way and win a European cup.

Barcelona these days will always be more or less the best team in the world-

And so on...

I think this sums it up quite well, and I'll try to leave it here. It's almost impossible to compare players from different era's. So back to Messi and Ronaldo.  

[Pelle]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah but the whole argument that an international trophy makes you a better player makes no sense. 

If a player twice as good as Messi emerged but he was from, I dunno, Lichtenstein then in some people’s eyes he’d never be one of the greats because he’d never win an international trophy. 

Absolutely. It's one way to measure, but far from makes a whole picture. I just prefer Maradona, even though I really despice the man. A cheater and all that. But he's the best I've ever seen.

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, sne said:

Having seen both I can say that Maradona looked just as out of this world as Messi does.

With that said Messi is obviously better as the game has evolved. U can only face the challenged u face in the era u play.

For example Maradona constantly, every game had at least one or two players in the opposing team that tried to break his legs. Every single game.

But on the other hand Messi is playing 70 games a season and is still able to be dominant in 65 of those.

Maradona would likely not been able to do that. Especially after he wen't all in on blow.

And on the other hand the gap between the big rich clubs and the competition has grown to a ridiculous level now while back in Maradona's days a club from Sweden could go all the way and win a European cup.

Barcelona these days will always be more or less the best team in the world-

And so on...

Gut feeling for me on comparing different eras is that there was less protection "back then", but the game itself was a lot less physical.  Seems a bit contradictory, but the vast majority of footballers now are primed athletes.  It's not just about being a "hardman", players such as Maradona, Best etc. would be less likely to be able to just carve their way through teams as they're more likely to be caught by quicker players.  It's been a noticeable trend during my lifetime (I'm only 32) - football is still as technical now, but it's much faster.  (I'd also argue that there are far more "great" players in this era than before, but that's very subjective and I can't really back it up properly).

For me, this is why the things that both Messi and Ronaldo are doing really stand out.  Prolonged spells of playing, at the very highest level, posting scoring and assisting records that no-one else on the planet can get near.  Apparently Messi averages 42 goals a season for the 14 seasons he's been playing.  In one calendar year he scored 92 goals.  Cristiano Ronaldo averaged over a goal a game in the league for Real Madrid over a total of 292 games.  They're just ridiculous players doing ridiculous things.

I agree with the general sentiment throughout the thread that, as a captain/leader/inspirational speaker, C. Ron would get the nod.  I guess it reflects their personalities throughout their careers.  Messi has always cut a more modest, shy character whereas C. Ron absolutely adores the limelight.  It possibly explains their desires in big games - certainly people quote about goals scored in latter stages of competitions; I don't think C. Ron is as much as a team player.  It's about him achieving whatever he can achieve.  It doesn't seem the same with Messi somehow.

That said, Messi is just a better footballer.  For all of the athleticism, power, focal point and bravado that C. Ron provides, he simply can't do the things that Messi can.  Whoever summed it up with the Lineker quote is spot on - C. Ron is a machine, but Messi is an artist.  You can't teach it, he just has it.

Edited May 9, 2019 by bobzy

[PaulC]

5 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I can’t say if Maradonna was better because I’ve never watched Maradonna play football. 

I’ve seen quite a few highlights of him playing. But that’s it. 

So I can’t really compare, for the same reason I asked someone earlier in the thread how many times they’d seen Pele play when they said he was the greatest. 

 

If if someone who has watched both Maradonna and Messi play says Maradonna was better then I’ll take their word for it. 

But there’s no way the reason he is better is because he’s won the World Cup. 

But then those that look back and can remember the likes of Best, Pele and Maradona will normally say they were better because that's the way it works.  Things have changed so much because the only really people saw the greats from the past was in world cups, that was there show case. Nowadays we see them all the time. It probably isn't so special. 

[Xela]

20 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Said before do you put him in the conversation as one of the best ever if we're just talking goal stats and most people said no

I'll be honest and say I haven't seen much of him but he looked like a hard little bastard who put himself in the right place and the right time and then threw himself at the ball without an ounce of fear, type of player who touched the ball 4 times a game, 3 goals 1 kick off

I think he isn't in the very top tier, but the next tier down.  A grade as opposed to A* 

He wasn't very quick, or tall, or skilful, but he scored at a ridiculous rate. 564 goals in 605 games for Bayern, in an era of hard defenders and no protection. Bayern weren't the all conquering juggernaut they are now either only winning the league 4 times in his 14/15 seasons there. 68 goals in 62 games for Germany as well including 14 in 13 World Cup games. A goal machine! 

[Xela]

20 hours ago, Mat Kendrick's Dentist said:

I would also strongly argue against it being the toughest league ever. In the 80s, 99% of the players in Serie A were Italian. It was a long way from the glory days of the mid-to-late 90s where the majority of top players from around the globe congregated in Italy. In Maradona's time, the top Serie A sides had 1/2 top foreigners, and the remainder of the squads were homegrown

 

That was down to the rules at the time though. 3 foreigners per team. So your overseas players had to be the very cream of the crop. 

Would be interesting if that rule was ever bought back for any reason! 

[Cjay]

Never saw Maradona play.

Dont think the World Cup should be used as a reason, had he not cheated then maybe Argentina dont win, then what?

Messi imo is better simply because he has been one of if not the best player in the world for over a decade.

Maradona was finished by the time he was 30 and really only shone at Napoli

People say its easy for Messi at Barcelona, but Maradona couldn't inspire Barcelona to the title, the season after he left they won it as well as the European Cup so it cant have been a bad side.

Personally don't get the hype with Maradona, he shone very bright very briefly.

Same as Ronaldinho, Kaka, Figo etc.

The greats imo have to be consistent, Cruyff, Pele, Messi, Ronaldo and Cristiano Ronaldo.

At best Maradona had 5-6 years at Napoli at the top of his game.

The players above were right up there for a decade or more, that imo is the difference.

Maradona, George Best players like that maybe had every bit of talent as Cruyff, Messi etc but they didnt have the longevity.

Messi at 19 was a better player then Maradona at the same age Messi is now.

Edit- Got dates wrong Barcelona won it years after Maradona left.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Cjay

[sne]

2 minutes ago, Cjay said:

Never saw Maradona play.

Dont think the World Cup should be used as a reason, had he not cheated then maybe Argentina dont win, then what?

Messi imo is better simply because he has been one of if not the best player in the world for over a decade.

Maradona was finished by the time he was 30 and really only shone at Napoli

People say its easy for Messi at Barcelona, but Maradona couldn't inspire Barcelona to the title, the season after he left they won it as well as the European Cup so it cant have been a bad side.

Personally don't get the hype with Maradona, he shone very bright very briefly.

Same as Ronaldinho, Kaka, Figo etc.

The greats imo have to be consistent, Cruyff, Pele, Messi, Ronaldo and Cristiano Ronaldo.

At best Maradona had 5-6 years at Napoli at the top of his game.

The players above were right up there for a decade or more, that imo is the difference.

Maradona, George Best players like that maybe had every bit of talent as Cruyff, Messi etc but they didnt have the longevity.

Messi at 19 was a better player then Maradona at the same age Messi is now.

 

 

 

 

 

Think this sums it up.

Doubt there is anyone who followed Maradona who doesn't have him among the best ever.

Don't see the need to diminish the talent and career of Maradona to lift Messi up.

[Zatman]

40 minutes ago, Xela said:

That was down to the rules at the time though. 3 foreigners per team. So your overseas players had to be the very cream of the crop. 

Would be interesting if that rule was ever bought back for any reason! 

Yes I think it made leagues a lot more competitive. I remember as a kid Georghe Hagi was playing for Brescia, Platt was at Bari so smaller clubs could sign top players instead of being hoovered up

[Cjay]

8 minutes ago, sne said:

Think this sums it up.

Doubt there is anyone who followed Maradona who doesn't have him among the best ever.

Don't see the need to diminish the talent and career of Maradona to lift Messi up.

Not diminishing just think he didnt play at the top level consistently enough or long enough.

Ronaldinho helped Barcelona win their first Champions league for 14 years and Brazil win the World Cup and Barcelona win there first league title for 6 years.

For 4 or 5 years he was awesome but like Maradona he was just about done by the time he was 30 and is never really in the conversation when The Greatest Ever comes up.

Ronaldinho is how i see Maradona (maybe wrongly) but thats how i see him, awesome for a spell but it was all to brief.

 

 

 

[Xela]

50 minutes ago, Cjay said:

Never saw Maradona play.

Dont think the World Cup should be used as a reason, had he not cheated then maybe Argentina dont win, then what?

Messi imo is better simply because he has been one of if not the best player in the world for over a decade.

Maradona was finished by the time he was 30 and really only shone at Napoli

People say its easy for Messi at Barcelona, but Maradona couldn't inspire Barcelona to the title, the season after he left they won it as well as the European Cup so it cant have been a bad side.

Personally don't get the hype with Maradona, he shone very bright very briefly.

Same as Ronaldinho, Kaka, Figo etc.

The greats imo have to be consistent, Cruyff, Pele, Messi, Ronaldo and Cristiano Ronaldo.

At best Maradona had 5-6 years at Napoli at the top of his game.

The players above were right up there for a decade or more, that imo is the difference.

Maradona, George Best players like that maybe had every bit of talent as Cruyff, Messi etc but they didnt have the longevity.

Messi at 19 was a better player then Maradona at the same age Messi is now.

Interesting view but pretty much everyone who had seen him play (fans, pundits, ex-players) chose Maradona as one of the two greatest players of all time along with Pele and a level above other great players like Cruyff, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho etc

You would have Messi in that list with Pele and Maradona now for sure.

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Xela