Dean Smith

[Laughable Chimp]

My problem with Dean is that I'm not convinced that he is tactically good enough a manager. There are some things, tactics wise, coaching wise, substitutions wise I feel we aren't getting correct in these games and its costing us. I want to believe in the Dean Smith project, but its hard to think that he'll bring us anywhere if I don't think he has the tactical nous.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[KHV]

3 hours ago, av1 said:

I don't. 

After what Dean has achieved with the club, the work that needed to be done in the summer, and the fact that this is our first season back, I'd be absolutely dismanyed if people were calling for his head due to a little losing streak that included City, Liverpool, Wolves (away), UTD and Chelsea. 

We all hope we can pick up 3 points against Newcastle but I'd hope fans take a broader view of the situation if we don't..

I wonder what the owners are thinking?

Will they change things if they think we are going to go down. I don't think they will hesitate to pull the trigger especially with level of investment they have provided

[sheepyvillian]

We need to spend with a big club mentality if we're to make a mark in this league. Hopefully, the owners realise the potential and ambition this club is capable of. Until we start to operate with that desire, then it will be just be the same old moan that's been echoing for the last, what feels like an eternity. 

[Dave-R]

Smith and co last season did something to last season's team when we went on that run of losing games, to all of a sudden start winning. I don't think it was down to just Grealish being out because we started winning just before he came back. Maybe Smith giving a massive reality check is what happened and I feel one is needed to these players this time around. Whatever the coaches did it worked and we can only hope that they can get it all to work again.

Alot of players status is at stake if we go down, not to mention a club that just been  brought back from such a terrible time, that those in charge and those who play all have to shoulder the responsibility here and make this happen.

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 hours ago, Dave-R said:

Smith and co last season did something to last season's team when we went on that run of losing games, to all of a sudden start winning. I don't think it was down to just Grealish being out because we started winning just before he came back. Maybe Smith giving a massive reality check is what happened and I feel one is needed to these players this time around. Whatever the coaches did it worked and we can only hope that they can get it all to work again.

Alot of players status is at stake if we go down, not to mention a club that just been  brought back from such a terrible time, that those in charge and those who play all have to shoulder the responsibility here and make this happen.

Nah it was his first game back when we ended the unbeaten run against Derby.I think we did win however win a game without Jack in the 10 game run. Against an in form Bristol City I think. 

[Dave-R]

7 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

We need to spend with a big club mentality if we're to make a mark in this league. Hopefully, the owners realise the potential and ambition this club is capable of. Until we start to operate with that desire, then it will be just be the same old moan that's been echoing for the last, what feels like an eternity. 

I think they do realise what it's going to take to make the mark your on about. January would be a hell of a time to make such a statement, were all expecting a 20 mill or less striker, maybe the Owners will look at spending a fair bit more than that. It would be very nice to see a heavyhitter who is going to cost an arm and a leg come in and hit the ground running, that kind of guarentee comes with a hefty price and is the only way we get a player up front that is going to guarentee tons of goals. World class is where we need to look now, weve done what we could do with buying quantity for as cheap as we could, its time to step it up and if we cant compete in the market for the game changing players, we may as well get ready and book our position back in the championship. 

So long as transfers are still done properly and we bring the right players/players in that work in the system were trying to use then I hope money is no concern to our Owners. Our Owners have already shown a willingness to break the bank if need be and I myself think we're getting ready to spend a 100 mill + again because it's quality were needing.

Buying from the championship an option now or any leagues that are considered equal, lower or less, it's such a risk its not what we need to make this system work which has been proved. Only way is to buy big world stage names that have earned there reputations for being the guy who can completely change the game. The type of player who can bring us back from defeat or completely destroy a team because of his skill, heart, desire, willingness to overcome any obstacle and catch the opposition off guard is a price we should be willing to pay if we have too.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Considering we got such a new team I think Smith has done a great job to have us where we are at this stage of the season. Yes we have lost a lot of games but we are competing in most. We’ve also been unlikely with a lot of decisions. 
 

Yes Smith has made mistakes and is constantly learning. But I honestly don’t think many managers would have done a better job at this stage considering the rebuild that was required.  
 

Has there ever been this much of a rebuild with a newly promoted team?  I seem to recall Watford made a lot of changes when they first came up and struggled for the first half of the season. 

I expect the same. This team will only get better. 
 

edit: just had a look and Watford actually had a decent start so I was wrong about that. They were on 16 points after 13 games. Assuming we beat Newcastle we will be on 14 which will be a similar start.  Also noticed on that table we had 5 points and - 14 gf after 13 games that season. Shocking.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[Dr_Pangloss]

My biggest frustration is that Smith only has one way of setting the side up, I actually think this squad could be pretty well primed for a 3-5-2 formation but he will never entertain it. Worst thing is that whenever Grealish is injured he carries on with the same formation and it doesn't work, it didn't work at all last season and this season we just look poor with a 4-5-1 without Grealish. 

He does need to be a bit braver at times IMO. 

[villalad21]

9 hours ago, KHV said:

I wonder what the owners are thinking?

Will they change things if they think we are going to go down. I don't think they will hesitate to pull the trigger especially with level of investment they have provided

Of course they will.

Leicester sacked Ranieri after he won the league

Spurs sacked Poch after he got them to a CL Final.

It's how modern football works. If people on here thinks Smith is on a free pass and is safe from the sack regardless of results they are horribly wrong.

That being said i hope he will be able to turn things around before it would come to that.

Edited November 23, 2019 by villalad21

[villalad21]

9 hours ago, Dave-R said:

Smith and co last season did something to last season's team when we went on that run of losing games, to all of a sudden start winning.

That was the Championship though. A league he was highly experienced in.

With all due respect. Comparing Championship to Premier League doesn't hold a lot of ground.

[Vive_La_Villa]

20 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

My biggest frustration is that Smith only has one way of setting the side up, I actually think this squad could be pretty well primed for a 3-5-2 formation but he will never entertain it. Worst thing is that whenever Grealish is injured he carries on with the same formation and it doesn't work, it didn't work at all last season and this season we just look poor with a 4-5-1 without Grealish. 

He does need to be a bit braver at times IMO. 

I see where you coming from but I also hate it when managers try something new (which they probably don’t believe in) out of desperation and the players look clueless after a week or so of working on it. 

Smith must be working extremely hard day in day out on this system and formation to see improvement every game.  I don’t think he should be changing it to suit the players. The players need to change how they are playing to suit the system and how he wants them to play.

I also disagree with those that say it isn’t working. Wolves and Spurs aside we have competed well in every game.  

The system and formation isn’t the problem. It’s the way the players are executing it in my opinion.

[Dr_Pangloss]

14 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I see where you coming from but I also hate it when managers try something new (which they probably don’t believe in) out of desperation and the players look clueless after a week or so of working on it. 

Smith must be working extremely hard day in day out on this system and formation to see improvement every game.  I don’t think he should be changing it to suit the players. The players need to change how they are playing to suit the system and how he wants them to play.

I also disagree with those that say it isn’t working. Wolves and Spurs aside we have competed well in every game.  

The system and formation isn’t the problem. It’s the way the players are executing it in my opinion.

I don't know, for me:

                            Heaton

             Konsa      Engles     Mings

Guilbert              Nakamba                 Targett

                Grealish                McGinn

                El Ghazi                Wesley

 

Could work better and for when we want to be more defensive Grealish can take El Ghazi's position with Luiz coming in.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss

[Vive_La_Villa]

38 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I don't know, for me:

                            Heaton

             Konsa      Engles     Mings

Guilbert              Nakamba                 Targett

                Grealish                McGinn

                El Ghazi                Wesley

 

Could work better and for when we want to be more defensive Grealish can take El Ghazi's position with Luiz coming in.

I suppose it could work but we’d have to give it several games I reckon before the players got used to it.

[TRO]

23 hours ago, carewjust4u said:

Bruce's system with Villa always failed against Dean's Brentford....badly.

I have every confidence we'll get the points.

Interesting...hope you are right.

Edited November 23, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I suppose it could work but we’d have to give it several games I reckon before the players got used to it.

I would have Hause in on the left, Mings in the middle and Engles on the right.

I think we would deal with far post aerial balls better......where many goals come from.

 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

Interesting...hope you are right.

However, is Smith still playing the same philosophy with Villa as he did with Brentford?

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

However, is Smith still playing the same philosophy with Villa as he did with Brentford?

good question?

[KenjiOgiwara]

On 22/11/2019 at 14:21, carewjust4u said:

Bruce's system with Villa always failed against Dean's Brentford....badly.

I have every confidence we'll get the points.

It's very normal that teams who aren't focused on possession and pass & move, but try to get by on effort, organization and counterattacking lose out to possession based sides. They often beat expected top sides by sitting deep and counter attacking, but lose to midtable possession heavy sides. 

You can see this with Wolverhampton this season, with us during the MON era. Norway during the 90s. 

For instance as an example I expect Wolves to lose today. But we'll see. 

[Tomaszk]

3 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I don't know, for me:

                            Heaton

             Konsa      Engles     Mings

Guilbert              Nakamba                 Targett

                Grealish                McGinn

                El Ghazi                Wesley

 

Could work better and for when we want to be more defensive Grealish can take El Ghazi's position with Luiz coming in.

Been saying since the crap run last season this should be looked at. Though we were shorter on CBs then.

With that losing-run experience, Smith should have used pre-season to try out a different system. Or have a run with it in training. Maybe he has, I don't know. But knowing how we died a death with no Jack last season in that shape, it would have been sensible to prepare for an alternative.

[TRO]

19 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

My problem with Dean is that I'm not convinced that he is tactically good enough a manager. There are some things, tactics wise, coaching wise, substitutions wise I feel we aren't getting correct in these games and its costing us. I want to believe in the Dean Smith project, but its hard to think that he'll bring us anywhere if I don't think he has the tactical nous.

The problem for us is this ...and its not just Dean Smith other managers have had similar things aimed at them.

The right things might be instructed, but they aren't or can't do them....or as you say the wrong things are instructed or set up.

Now its one thing to blame a manager for poor signings, but its another argument to say he is not getting the best out of them....We only know the end product is not there yet.

Now that could be :

1. the players are not good enough.

2 The manager is not good enough.

3. Both are good enough....just not clicked yet.

My opinion is....They are both good enough technically......but we are too soft and not Pugnacious or belligerent enough as a group....we have a missing ingredient for me.

I want to see Dean seething after a defeat. I want to see players seething after a defeat.

Edited November 23, 2019 by TRO