Dean Smith

[hippo]

24 minutes ago, romavillan said:

You talk about the recruitment like the head coach isn't involved in it?! Like they just foisted players on him and told him to coach them. That's completely not how it works. He has the same set up here (apart from your weirdness in having two DOFs), anywhere outside the UK it is normal, but to talk like Smith had nothing to do with the recruitment there is insane. The head coach is integral to identifying what he needs with the DOF, he then consults with the DOF and the scouts about suitable targets they identify. Saying Smith had nothing to do with it is madness.

Not saying you're incorrect. But Warbutton quit Brentford because of lack of control of transfers  (per our Brentford resident on here) - Yet for Smith this wasn't a problem.

I would guess that Smith isn't involved much in sourcing the players. I can't imagine either club imposing a player on Smith.

The question for me is are the people at Brentford coming up with better players  then their equivalents at Villa 

[romavillan]

4 minutes ago, hippo said:

Not saying you're incorrect. But Warbutton quit Brentford because of lack of control of transfers  (per our Brentford resident on here) - Yet for Smith this wasn't a problem.

I would guess that Smith isn't involved much in sourcing the players. I can't imagine either club imposing a player on Smith.

The question for me is are the people at Brentford coming up with better players  then their equivalents at Villa 

With Warburton I can see that, as he's an old school UK type manager, having a DOF would have been a right pain in the arse as far as he was concerned.

Smith almost definitely isn't involved in the scouting side of the recruitment, at least unless he's seen someone he wants during the course of his work I would think. 

As for the bold bit, we've only had one window with Pitarch, and AFAIK the scouting side of the club isn't sorted out yet, but in terms of what we've seen since over the last 10 years or so, I'd say with the resources at their disposal the Brentford off field set up is amongst the best there is in the country.

[hippo]

15 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I have no clue how we are comparing this to Paul Lambert who didn;t have a pot to piss in, with the remit seemingly being to keep us up in the PL.

To having extremely wealthy owners trying to build a long term structure?

In the event that Smith fails (To the glee of the likes of yourself) the system they are trying to create won't suddenly change.

The Head Coach will, but not the vision.

As it is not a quick fix.

Any  new head coach will change things if we are under performing  - otherwise whats the point of bringing a new one in.

Per our Brentford fans on here - the new head coach has changed the style a fair bit at Brentford.

If Smith Bombs next season, I couldn't imagine the potential new incumbent at the interview saying "Yeah I won't change much" 

This identity, ethos , etc call it what will - is very much secondary to winning games. 

[screwdriver]

Brentford are in a nice location they can aquire the cast offs from all the big london teams arrange a few trial games and pick up the low hanging fruit.

A lot of these guys wouldn't be arsed traveling all the way to birmingham so we might get all green eyed about brentfords success doing it on the cheap this model will never work here.

 

[hippo]

1 minute ago, romavillan said:

With Warburton I can see that, as he's an old school UK type manager, having a DOF would have been a right pain in the arse as far as he was concerned.

Smith almost definitely isn't involved in the scouting side of the recruitment, at least unless he's seen someone he wants during the course of his work I would think. 

As for the bold bit, we've only had one window with Pitarch, and AFAIK the scouting side of the club isn't sorted out yet, but in terms of what we've seen since over the last 10 years or so, I'd say with the resources at their disposal the Brentford off field set up is amongst the best there is in the country.

Fair point and I agree - but does it not then follow that despite the low outlay Smith actually had a pretty good set of players at Brentford - yet still didn't kick on much past mid table.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 minutes ago, hippo said:

Any  new head coach will change things if we are under performing  - otherwise whats the point of bringing a new one in.

Per our Brentford fans on here - the new head coach has changed the style a fair bit at Brentford.

If Smith Bombs next season, I couldn't imagine the potential new incumbent at the interview saying "Yeah I won't change much" 

This identity, ethos , etc call it what will - is very much secondary to winning games. 

Of course every coach will have their own ideas and tweaks they want to make to a system, but I assume the overall structure would remain the same.

In this case i'm more referring to the actual vision, type of player being signed etc... not so much the on field side of things.

Several clubs have a system they try to implement all the way from the youth system upwards.

Edited February 15, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[hippo]

Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Of course every coach will have their own ideas and tweaks they want to make to a system, but I assume the overall structure would remain the same.

In this case i'm more referring to the actual vision, type of player being signed etc... not so much the on field side of things.

Several clubs have a system they try to implement all the way from the youth system upwards.

I think you're focusing on the window dressing. The real business is winning matches.

Wolves a few years back - made a great play of from youth team, to first team they played the same system - and they absolutely were in it for the long term and weren't budging.

...They almost got relegated from the championship. They went out and got a top class coach in Nuno ......not sure how many , if any of the youth players of that time now play in the first team. 

[Brentfordnylons]

28 minutes ago, romavillan said:

You talk about the recruitment like the head coach isn't involved in it?! Like they just foisted players on him and told him to coach them. That's completely not how it works. He has the same set up here (apart from your weirdness in having two DOFs), anywhere outside the UK it is normal, but to talk like Smith had nothing to do with the recruitment there is insane. The head coach is integral to identifying what he needs with the DOF, he then consults with the DOF and the scouts about suitable targets they identify. Saying Smith had nothing to do with it is madness.

The reason we have 2 directors of football is one is based on the continent and involved in our owners other club FC Midtjylland where he is Chairman hence the amount of Scandinavian players and coaches we have.Look at the amount of foreign players we had in our team Wednesday night of course Dean Smith would have an input into the discussions on the players needed to strengthen the team but the important bit is our scouting network that finds these players that has brought in 55 million + in the last few years through player sales which helps keep small clubs like us afloat.Dont see what’s weird about that,I just find it interesting that some fans think that Dean Smith discovered all these talented players and is or was the brains behind the way we play when we were already playing this style of football when he took over as head coach.Now seeing how Thomas Franks performing as head coach I’m begining to believe Dean may be missing his input as he looked a bit lost in the dugout the other night.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

30 minutes ago, hippo said:

I think you're focusing on the window dressing. The real business is winning matches.

Wolves a few years back - made a great play of from youth team, to first team they played the same system - and they absolutely were in it for the long term and weren't budging.

...They almost got relegated from the championship. They went out and got a top class coach in Nuno ......not sure how many , if any of the youth players of that time now play in the first team. 

Well we can all admit Wolves showed how to spend money the right way.

If we had went that route as soon as we were relegated it would have been a different story.

However we shafted ourselves into the FFP situation where we have to now do the reverse, sadlyy.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

32 minutes ago, Brentfordnylons said:

The reason we have 2 directors of football is one is based on the continent and involved in our owners other club FC Midtjylland where he is Chairman hence the amount of Scandinavian players and coaches we have.Look at the amount of foreign players we had in our team Wednesday night of course Dean Smith would have an input into the discussions on the players needed to strengthen the team but the important bit is our scouting network that finds these players that has brought in 55 million + in the last few years through player sales which helps keep small clubs like us afloat.Dont see what’s weird about that,I just find it interesting that some fans think that Dean Smith discovered all these talented players and is or was the brains behind the way we play when we were already playing this style of football when he took over as head coach.Now seeing how Thomas Franks performing as head coach I’m begining to believe Dean may be missing his input as he looked a bit lost in the dugout the other night.

Seems we might need to sign Thomas Frank as well then

Mostly because he has 2 first names.

Edited February 15, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[sne]

3 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Seems we might need to sign Thomas Frank as well then

Mostly because he has 2 first names.

Not sure about that being a good idea.

Steve Bruce remember?

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

by cheating the system

Or is it because he is actually getting. The best out of a poor  average squad something Smith is failing to do thus far? 

[Merson08]

Brentford are able to do what Villa cant. They can buy multiple cheap or free players with a sight on selling the player in the future for a few million to help the club tick over, even manage a few 10M+ sales. Granted in the process have made a good squad that continually falls outside of the play offs minus once 4 years ago.

Villa need to sign players for about 5-10M and need the same improvement level as those that are free or cheap. Except we cant buy 10-12 players for 5-10M a piece. It seems for Dean working with those players without attitude or a god complex suits him. He needs to master how to keep the billy big ******* in check and their form on an upwards trend. 

I'm not sure if he has this in him.   

 

[Zatman]

27 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Or is it because he is actually getting. The best out of a poor  average squad something Smith is failing to do thus far? 

No they signed players illegally hence why FA are investigating 

[hippo]

42 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Well we can all admit Wolves showed how to spend money the right way.

If we had went that route as soon as we were relegated it would have been a different story.

However we shafted ourselves into the FFP situation where we have to now do the reverse, sadlyy.

My point was they switched from pontificating   'changing the ethos' 'getting an identity"  and something that would come good in seasons to come - they "went out and did" - and it worked the very next season - not a promise of it working in seasons to come - its still working now, whilst we are grappling with our "ethos" or "Identity"   

[Brentfordnylons]

14 minutes ago, Merson08 said:

Brentford are able to do what Villa cant. They can buy multiple cheap or free players with a sight on selling the player in the future for a few million to help the club tick over, even manage a few 10M+ sales. Granted in the process have made a good squad that continually falls outside of the play offs minus once 4 years ago.

Villa need to sign players for about 5-10M and need the same improvement level as those that are free or cheap. Except we cant buy 10-12 players for 5-10M a piece. It seems for Dean working with those players without attitude or a god complex suits him. He needs to master how to keep the billy big ******* in check and their form on an upwards trend. 

I'm not sure if he has this in him.   

 

Don’t underestimate Dean remember he has been captain at every club he’s played for so I think he can do confrontation.I think you are right regarding the type of player we sign but remember it does take time for them to improve and some don’t..This time last year one of our fans posted Maupay was the worse striker we have had in 25 years and he was getting more stick than praise on most forums.

[dukes]

1 hour ago, screwdriver said:

Brentford are in a nice location they can aquire the cast offs from all the big london teams arrange a few trial games and pick up the low hanging fruit.

A lot of these guys wouldn't be arsed traveling all the way to birmingham so we might get all green eyed about brentfords success doing it on the cheap this model will never work here.

 

Sorry, but thats just absolute rubbish.

 

Given the chance to play at Villa Park (Average attendance 34k week in and week out, and train at Bodymoor Heath versus playing at Griffin Park (Average less than 10k) or Brentford Community Stadium (capacity 17,250) any player released by Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs would certainly choose Villa even before you take into account club stature and history.

Edited February 15, 2019 by dukes

[bannedfromHandV]

9 minutes ago, dukes said:

Sorry, but thats just absolute rubbish.

 

Given the chance to play at Villa Park (Average attendance 34k week in and week out, and train at Bodymoor Heath versus playing at Griffin Park (Average less than 10k) or Brentford Community Stadium (capacity 17,250) any player released by Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs would certainly choose Villa even before you take into account club stature and history.

I think you're overlooking the draw of London.

[sne]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I think you're overlooking the draw of London.

Well, we have become the kings of draws  

[dukes]

11 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I think you're overlooking the draw of London.

Which is 2 hours away !