UFC/Pride/MMA

[Dr_Pangloss]

29 minutes ago, Chindie said:

I wouldn't take too much from Diaz not seeming hurt by McGregor's shots - both the Diaz brothers have been blessed by being exceptionally hard bastards who just take hits, hence why both have faces absolutely riddled with scar tissue. Nate Diaz has been stopped once by strikes and that was a ref stoppage iirc. McGregor is known for being quite heavy handed, particularly his left.

He is a big featherweight, who cuts ridiculous amounts, at welterweight he's at a disadvantage all over in stature terms. He may do better at lightweight. A big problem is he's immediately in trouble on the ground, his style heavily favours staying on his feet and he never looks comfortable on the ground to me. He's a BJJ brown belt but you can see he goes to ground as a last resort, whereas really it needs to be another weapon in his armoury, even if he doesn't favour it. Mendes caused him problems last year, and he survived to win on his feet, but a bigger man who can wrestle and he's in trouble IMO.

Exactly, I wonder how he will cope against bigger, heavier men on top of him, much harder to break out of. Fair point about the Diaz chin, McGregor certainly caused a lot of superficial damage but never once hurt him from what I can recall (superficial damage isn't necessarily caused by power more from speed), but maybe less granite chins would have been rocked from his shots...

Edited March 6, 2016 by Dr_Pangloss

[Daweii]

As a fan of Conor McGregor I was expecting this result. There is a difference between walking around naturally at 170lbs and competing naturally at 170lbs. Nate Diaz is a big guy and he could naturally be a solid welterweight that largely cuts down to bully the lightweights. This was very evident last night that while Conor and Nate shared a weight they didn't share a similar stature with Nate just looking like the vastly bigger guy.. What this fight did expose though is where Conor could improve and that is in his ground game and his stamina, as he gave Nate everything going for the 1st round knockout he'd promised and then had very little in reserve. So I am sad that Conor lost, but I was expecting it.

[Tegis]

On 03/05/2016 at 15:38, Tegis said:

 

Diaz has very good boxing for mma and as you said, is good on the ground. Cerrone tried to box with Diaz and got absolutely jabbed to death. Conor will use loads of kicks if he is smart and stay at range.

I've cut out the bit where I picked the wrong fighter. But dang what a dejavu. Stupid Conor is stupid.

[Tegis]

And Tates juggs are awesome. Just saying.....

[Brumstopdogs]

Nice pair of cupcakes

[Meath_Villan]

Conor had a good first round and a good start to the second ....when diaz started the slapping thing it drew conor in to burning the reserves too hard by trying to punch diaz and left him open to the inevitable ....id say you could punch that lad all night long and he`d still be swinging, I can see conor coming back to this fight again in the near future but he must keep diaz at length with the kicks and then try to submission the guy in the last round or two .....having watched the pre fight documentary I kinda thought diaz was a decent enough guy he`s more than earned his time in the light 

[AVFCDAN]

Watched the card this morning, it's my first proper card after hearing so much hype surrounding UFC over the last year. It was fairly entertaining but it's not going to replace my love of boxing anytime soon. Definitely lacks the class and history that boxing offers but I'm sure I'll get the next card.

[ThunderPower_14]

2 hours ago, AVFCDAN said:

Watched the card this morning, it's my first proper card after hearing so much hype surrounding UFC over the last year. It was fairly entertaining but it's not going to replace my love of boxing anytime soon. Definitely lacks the class and history that boxing offers but I'm sure I'll get the next card.

 

I agree in general about the class and history of boxing, but boxing's biggest issue (from an outsider) is the ridiculous amount of belts.

 

An Australian won the WBA World Heavyweight Title this past week to become the first Australian in history to hold a World Heavyweight Title. But the WBA World Heavyweight Title isn't even WBA's main heavyweight title. There are actually 3 WBA World Heavyweight Champions, with Tyson Fury being the most important, I guess. And, if you include other promotions, there are currently 5 people who could claim some sort of major World Heavyweight Championship. Most of the other divisions have a similar issue.

 

It's confusing and boring.

 

In fact, it's the main thing for me that UFC does better than boxing. I know that's because UFC is effectively just one promotion, but it makes everything clearer and more interesting in terms of champions and contenders.

 

I know it will never happen because of the money in it, but Boxing stripping everything back and just having one world champion in each weight class would do wonders for the ability of the average joe to follow and take interest in the sport.

[Dr_Pangloss]

8 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

 

I agree in general about the class and history of boxing, but boxing's biggest issue (from an outsider) is the ridiculous amount of belts.

 

An Australian won the WBA World Heavyweight Title this past week to become the first Australian in history to hold a World Heavyweight Title. But the WBA World Heavyweight Title isn't even WBA's main heavyweight title. There are actually 3 WBA World Heavyweight Champions, with Tyson Fury being the most important, I guess. And, if you include other promotions, there are currently 5 people who could claim some sort of major World Heavyweight Championship. Most of the other divisions have a similar issue.

 

It's confusing and boring.

 

In fact, it's the main thing for me that UFC does better than boxing. I know that's because UFC is effectively just one promotion, but it makes everything clearer and more interesting in terms of champions and contenders.

 

I know it will never happen because of the money in it, but Boxing stripping everything back and just having one world champion in each weight class would do wonders for the ability of the average joe to follow and take interest in the sport.

There are actually 2 WBA champions not 3, the interim belt does not count and is not recognised as a World Title, it's function mirrors the 'interim' champ in UFC. However your point still holds, boxing has far too many sanctioning bodies and far too many incentives to avoid top fighters. 

Personally boxing should go back to the days of one and only one world title per division, with the best fighting the best.

The other reason for boxing's relative irrelevance is the 'premium-isation' of the sport. It's harder to watch boxing now than it ever was before because it resides on subscription networks such as Sky or Box Nation and the PPV model is a further turn off. Before the prominence of Sky you'd get audiences of over 15 million for fights like Eubank vs Benn on ITV, in fact over 27 million watched Ali vs Frazier on BBC, on Sky you get an absolute tiny fraction of that sort of reach.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Dr_Pangloss

[AVFCDAN]

The number of belts honestly doesn't bother me, I know where you are coming from that there should only be one true belt or champion but any fan worth their salt knows what it all means anyway, in some ways I like the fact that you have to know more than the casual observer to understand the finer points of the sport.

[BOF]

2 hours ago, AVFCDAN said:

The number of belts honestly doesn't bother me, I know where you are coming from that there should only be one true belt or champion but any fan worth their salt knows what it all means anyway, in some ways I like the fact that you have to know more than the casual observer to understand the finer points of the sport.

It does make it harder to be more than a casual observer though, which is not ideal for the sport in general.  Particularly at a time when it is lacking superstars and finally has a rival series vying for airtime.  Boxing needs to be a little bit careful that it doesn't become its own worst enemy and become arrogant to think it will win the battle by doing nothing.  All it has over UFC is history.  It'll be interesting to see where their futures go.

[Dr_Pangloss]

2 hours ago, AVFCDAN said:

The number of belts honestly doesn't bother me, I know where you are coming from that there should only be one true belt or champion but any fan worth their salt knows what it all means anyway, in some ways I like the fact that you have to know more than the casual observer to understand the finer points of the sport.

I think it's very bad. It's alienating and confusing for the most part. But the worst part is that it enables boxers to avoid each other, hiding behind sanctioning bodies, mandatories and step-a-side money, whilst retaining some level of legitimacy (i.e. they remain 'world' champions). Only in a sport like boxing would you have someone like Canelo, a junior middleweight, holding the middleweight title, despite never fighting at the limit of 160lbs, basically turn it into the 155lb title, and defending that 'crown' against a blown up welterweight (Khan) after winning it from a blown up welterweight (Cotto). 

The UFC's ranking and title system is far more legit. Guys fight for spots in the rankings, the interim belt holder fights the world champ to unify, if you duck someone you lose your ranking and drop down the list. It's really what boxing needs right now. 

[Chindie]

It has accessibility over the UFC/MMA generally. Boxing is a pretty simple sport - you don't need to be an expert to watch a fight and understand who's doing better, there aren't many rules and even when a match becomes more tactical you don't need to think much to understand the way the fight is going.

The UFC on the other hand has quite a few rules that are less immediately obvious, and a lot of fights that become more tactical are less immediately engaging to a casual viewer. A lot of fights go to ground and become position battles which, even for a fan, can be incredibly dull and the nitty gritty of the fight becomes more important. Someone who's watched a lot of fights might see that a guy is trying to improve his position to go for a triangle, or numerous other holds and chokes, while a casual observer will just see a guy shifting his weight on another bloke and not a lot of note happening. Judging is more nebulous as well, you do have matches where it's not completely clear how it was judged one way or another, even if you know the rules and how the judges look at things.

It takes some commitment from the audience to enjoy, whereas any idiot can go to the pub and watch the latest headline bout in the boxing and understand it.

[Dr_Pangloss]

4 minutes ago, Chindie said:

It has accessibility over the UFC/MMA generally. Boxing is a pretty simple sport - you don't need to be an expert to watch a fight and understand who's doing better, there aren't many rules and even when a match becomes more tactical you don't need to think much to understand the way the fight is going.

The UFC on the other hand has quite a few rules that are less immediately obvious, and a lot of fights that become more tactical are less immediately engaging to a casual viewer. A lot of fights go to ground and become position battles which, even for a fan, can be incredibly dull and the nitty gritty of the fight becomes more important. Someone who's watched a lot of fights might see that a guy is trying to improve his position to go for a triangle, or numerous other holds and chokes, while a casual observer will just see a guy shifting his weight on another bloke and not a lot of note happening. Judging is more nebulous as well, you do have matches where it's not completely clear how it was judged one way or another, even if you know the rules and how the judges look at things.

It takes some commitment from the audience to enjoy, whereas any idiot can go to the pub and watch the latest headline bout in the boxing and understand it.

Whilst in general I agree that MMA is a lot more complex, I do not think boxing is particularly simple. Lots of subtle things happen in boxing that many do not notice when watching a fight, such as feints and in particular foot-movement. For example, in the recent Quigg vs Frampton fight you had Quigg basically not throwing anything in the first half of the fight, the causal observer would question why Quigg is gun shy whereas the expert observer would notice that Frampton was using head movement, feints and crucially skillful footwork to make Quigg continually 'reset' his own feet and thus not be able to plant his feet in order to get his own offense off. I also think casual observers totally fail to understand boxing tactics, pacing and the difference between activity and clean punching, as well as the concept of 'ring generalship' and 'effective aggression', in fact very few causal observers know or understand the 4 criteria for scoring rounds. 

[BOF]

Clickings

Muay Thai Legend Sends Warning Message To Conor McGregor

Feb 25, 2016

 

 

 

 

 

One of the greatest Muay Thai fighters to ever live has just called out Conor McGregor, this could be insane!

Muay Thai great Saenchai is interested in making a move to MMA. Saenchai is known for his incredible leg dexterity and flashy technique. Having fought in over 300 fights including bare knuckle bouts and single-night tournaments, the Thai legend has won championship titles in 6 different weight classes. He recently uploaded a video to his Facebook account in which he discussed a move to MMA competition and critiqued UFC featherweight champion Conor McGregor.

“His punches are hard and accurate, his kicks are not that great.” Said Saenchai of the Irishman. “If he were to fight a real Muay Thai fighter, then he would have no chance of winning. He can’t beat ‘Thai’ Muay Thai.”

When asked how McGregor would fare against him, Saenchai quickly responded: “Well, bring it on, I would win. I would definitely win.”

Saenchai expressed the desire for a new challenge outside of Muay Thai, and seems destined to compete in MMA. He has received an invitation to train with GSP at Tristar gym in Canada. Tristar head coach Firas Zahabi confirmed that he has been in contact with Saenchai and will host the Muay Thai legend in the future.

Another Muay Thai Superstar has been mentioned for potential MMA bout in the past. Buakaw Banchamek spent time training jiu jitsu, judo and wrestling during a short retirement in 2012 before returning to the Muay Thai ring 5 months later.

The 2-time K1 Max champion has been photographed training jiu jitsu again recently, leading to speculation that he will be making a move to MMA in the near future. After winning his most recent fight in China, Buakaw accepted a challenge to fight Yi Long in a mixed martial arts fight. A date has not been determined. Buakaw defeated Yi Long by decision in a kickboxing match this past August.

[Oaks]

I agree with the above post. A friend of mine is a UFC avid watcher is quite dismissive of boxing...to me they are seperate sports that will survive in their own he thinks that it will over take boxing, I doubt it. 

You also have to remember that UFC is only one championship belt as well. It's a company that's doing very well to spin major stars, who then in recent years have failed to live up to their hype. But there is other companies who maybe haven't sold there product as well. 

I will never really enjoy MMA as much as boxing, it's just too graphic for me firstly and I do lose interest when they hit the floor. And as I love my boxing, the striking annoys me with lack of movement in the head as well as body. But I will still enjoy the events, they are well put to gether and you get more competitive fights than you get on the whole in boxing, but that's a marketing issue rather than the sport it's self.

[Chindie]

14 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Whilst in general I agree that MMA is a lot more complex, I do not think boxing is particularly simple. Lots of subtle things happen in boxing that many do not notice when watching a fight, such as feints and in particular foot-movement. For example, in the recent Quigg vs Frampton fight you had Quigg basically not throwing anything in the first half of the fight, the causal observer would question why Quigg is gun shy whereas the expert observer would notice that Frampton was using head movement, feints and crucially skillful footwork to make Quigg continually 'reset' his own feet and thus not be able to plant his feet in order to get his own offense off. I also think casual observers totally fail to understand boxing tactics, pacing and the difference between activity and clean punching, as well as the concept of 'ring generalship' and 'effective aggression', in fact very few causal observers know or understand the 4 criteria for scoring rounds. 

Obviously theres complexity to boxing that an enthusiast can appreciate, that they will gain more from than a casual observer. MMA, whilst you do get fights where guys stand and trade, more often than not their is a grappling side of things that just isn't as immediately engaging as boxing is. Even a bad bout.

Basically I'm trying to say boxing is an easier sport to enjoy as a spectator.

[Chindie]

19 minutes ago, BOF said:

Clickings

Muay Thai Legend Sends Warning Message To Conor McGregor

Feb 25, 2016

 

 

 

 

 

One of the greatest Muay Thai fighters to ever live has just called out Conor McGregor, this could be insane!

Muay Thai great Saenchai is interested in making a move to MMA. Saenchai is known for his incredible leg dexterity and flashy technique. Having fought in over 300 fights including bare knuckle bouts and single-night tournaments, the Thai legend has won championship titles in 6 different weight classes. He recently uploaded a video to his Facebook account in which he discussed a move to MMA competition and critiqued UFC featherweight champion Conor McGregor.

“His punches are hard and accurate, his kicks are not that great.” Said Saenchai of the Irishman. “If he were to fight a real Muay Thai fighter, then he would have no chance of winning. He can’t beat ‘Thai’ Muay Thai.”

When asked how McGregor would fare against him, Saenchai quickly responded: “Well, bring it on, I would win. I would definitely win.”

Saenchai expressed the desire for a new challenge outside of Muay Thai, and seems destined to compete in MMA. He has received an invitation to train with GSP at Tristar gym in Canada. Tristar head coach Firas Zahabi confirmed that he has been in contact with Saenchai and will host the Muay Thai legend in the future.

Another Muay Thai Superstar has been mentioned for potential MMA bout in the past. Buakaw Banchamek spent time training jiu jitsu, judo and wrestling during a short retirement in 2012 before returning to the Muay Thai ring 5 months later.

The 2-time K1 Max champion has been photographed training jiu jitsu again recently, leading to speculation that he will be making a move to MMA in the near future. After winning his most recent fight in China, Buakaw accepted a challenge to fight Yi Long in a mixed martial arts fight. A date has not been determined. Buakaw defeated Yi Long by decision in a kickboxing match this past August.

In other news an IT consultant loses in a boxing match against Sergey Kovalev.

This chap probably would beat McGregor in a true Muay Thai fight. Assuming they're similar weights.

He gets schooled in an MMA bout. Different disciplines, different sports.

[Tegis]

36 minutes ago, Oaks said:

I agree with the above post. A friend of mine is a UFC avid watcher is quite dismissive of boxing...to me they are seperate sports that will survive in their own he thinks that it will over take boxing, I doubt it.

In a nutshell!

It's a bit like comparing Icehocky and Bandy just because they share an icy feild, skates, a stick and a goal to put the scoringobject in.

People have a strange tendency to like something and then feel the need to bash it's closest resemblance. Just enjoy your "game" and don't bother with the other. Or better yet, enjoy the shit out of both. I love a good boxing match.

[AVFCDAN]

While I enjoyed the McGregor fight it just seemed to me to be a boxing fight with a bit of grappling that ended with a choke out.

For me if that was just a boxing match it would have been a more interesting fight, there's no easy out, its about who has the stamina to last the full rounds or the ring craft to get through it and maybe nick a points win.

Edited March 7, 2016 by AVFCDAN