villakram Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Awol said: Oh, I know this one! Is it because they'd just fired 22 ballistic missiles at their neighbours? The original sin was 2003, but as we need to be a little more practical I'll go for balance sheet approach to try and figure out who might have created these tensions. In the last six months Iran has: attacked oil tankers, taken political hostages, shot down US assets in Omani airspace, bombed the world's largest oil refinery, attempted to storm the US embassy in Baghdad and launched dozens of recent rocket attacks against coalition facilities in Iraq - resulting in the death of a US citizen and wounding of several more. Not to mention the 2000+ civilian protesters killed by Iranian militias in both their own country and in Iraq in the last few months. The US has: killed Qassem Soleimani, a highly accomplished practitioner of irregular warfare, terrorist planner and the butcher of Aleppo. Interestingly, the assassination of Soleimani was the last of all the events listed above, so it wasn't the cause of them. ...all occurring in a vacuum of course. Those dastardly Iranians/Russians/Chinese and Disney corp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, tonyh29 said: At 8000 feet and the pilots seemingly still trying to fly the plane I’d imagine they were mostly all alive until the point the plane impacted into the ground and turned into a fireball Ya, also I wonder if any were able to turn on phones etc., as they were in the air for ~1-2mins after the hit. Black boxes should be interesting and it seems like everyone is behaving responsibly and not doing too much chest beating, which would affect the permitted conduct of the proper investigation that is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Am I the only one thinking the Iranian missiles at NATO bases in Iraq where sent to do very little damage? Seems to me the wanted to show muscle without reaping the whirlwind. I just can't for my life see their missiles being sent with intent to kill and do so little damage. They might not have the technology the US got, but they aren't Hamas (in terms of uncontrolled missile tech.). The fact that they claim 80 Americans died afterwards just speaks volumes to me. PR show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 If it gets confirmed that the plane was in fact shot down by Iran, what happens to Iran. Does the killing of 180 innocent people land them in any trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Genie said: If it gets confirmed that the plane was in fact shot down by Iran, what happens to Iran. Does the killing of 180 innocent people land them in any trouble? I'm not sure how meaningful the concept of 'getting in trouble' is when applied to a state, but there certainly will be people understandably reluctant to fly there at the moment. Seemingly there are people sat at computer screens in control rooms in Iran who are unable to tell the difference between a blob on their screen representing a drone or missile, and a blob representing a commercial airliner, and that's got to make a lot of people nervous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm not sure how meaningful the concept of 'getting in trouble' is when applied to a state, but there certainly will be people understandably reluctant to fly there at the moment. Seemingly there are people sat at computer screens in control rooms in Iran who are unable to tell the difference between a blob on their screen representing a drone or missile, and a blob representing a commercial airliner, and that's got to make a lot of people nervous. On that airline forum linked a page or 2 back they were talking about a flight from France that was going to Iran but then turned back to France seemingly as the news about the plane being shot down had broken. Don’t blame them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 22 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm not sure how meaningful the concept of 'getting in trouble' is when applied to a state, but there certainly will be people understandably reluctant to fly there at the moment. Seemingly there are people sat at computer screens in control rooms in Iran who are unable to tell the difference between a blob on their screen representing a drone or missile, and a blob representing a commercial airliner, and that's got to make a lot of people nervous. It sounds like computer error. Iran switched on their missile defence system when they fired on US bases and the system seems to have taken the plane as being return fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Genie said: On that airline forum linked a page or 2 back they were talking about a flight from France that was going to Iran but then turned back Apparently Macron tried to surrender but the line was engaged. (stereotype? moi?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 11 hours ago, Awol said: Oh, I know this one! Is it because they'd just fired 22 ballistic missiles at their neighbours? The original sin was 2003, but as we need to be a little more practical I'll go for balance sheet approach to try and figure out who might have created these tensions. In the last six months Iran has: attacked oil tankers, taken political hostages, shot down US assets in Omani airspace, bombed the world's largest oil refinery, attempted to storm the US embassy in Baghdad and launched dozens of recent rocket attacks against coalition facilities in Iraq - resulting in the death of a US citizen and wounding of several more. Not to mention the 2000+ civilian protesters killed by Iranian militias in both their own country and in Iraq in the last few months. The US has: killed Qassem Soleimani, a highly accomplished practitioner of irregular warfare, terrorist planner and the butcher of Aleppo. Interestingly, the assassination of Soleimani was the last of all the events listed above, so it wasn't the cause of them. Shhh! This doesn't fit the Trump bashing Israeli hating narrative!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Am I the only one thinking the Iranian missiles at NATO bases in Iraq where sent to do very little damage? Seems to me the wanted to show muscle without reaping the whirlwind. I just can't for my life see their missiles being sent with intent to kill and do so little damage. They might not have the technology the US got, but they aren't Hamas (in terms of uncontrolled missile tech.). The fact that they claim 80 Americans died afterwards just speaks volumes to me. PR show. Photo shows (some of) the damage to Saudi Aramco’s Abqaiq refinery caused by the Iranian attack. That is the astonishing level of precision strike capability Iran can achieve from long range, when it wants to. So yes, what you suggest is highly likely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Precisely, this is akin to me wanting you to change your behavior. Potential options: 1) Negotiations. 2) I kill you or family member. 3) I destroy your stuff. 4) I place a shell casing in the whisky cabinet inside your house and lying on cap of your favorite tipple. Return to 1). The Iranians have apparently demonstrated that they can not kill you, and quite deliberately (they let the Iraqi's know who passed the msg. on, all very similar to the time the US fired those missiles at the Russian airstrip in Syria)... modulo airlines apparently. Anyway, interesting how things are evolving as Trump was at his best in Toledo last night and while he boasted loads about the General, he pretty much side-stepped the airline. A healthy development in terms of getting the investigation done. Of course, twitter may make this obsolete at any moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Easily read as “congratulations on becoming an occupied country.” This is very dodgy ground, ethically and legally. Looks like Trump has lost his with fight with Washington’s Imperial Guard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 hours ago, Awol said: Photo shows (some of) the damage to Saudi Aramco’s Abqaiq refinery caused by the Iranian attack. That is the astonishing level of precision strike capability Iran can achieve from long range, when it wants to. So yes, what you suggest is highly likely. Trump said something in his speech that made me wonder whether it was more that Iran gave them advanced warning which allowed the US to move troops to safe spots: Quote No American or Iraqi lives were lost because of the precautions taken, the dispersal of forces, and an early warning system that worked very well. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/read-full-transcript-trump-s-iran-speech-n1112456 A bit like what the IRA used to do. Obviously protecting mobile objects (e.g. people) from a missile strike is easier than protecting a fixed building (e.g. an oil refinery). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I thought Iraqis had already said they were forewarned of the attack by Iran and passed the details on to the US (as Iran knew they would). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, KentVillan said: A bit like what the IRA used to do. P O'Neill lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 31 minutes ago, snowychap said: P O'Neill lives! Indeed. We know where, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, snowychap said: P O'Neill lives! Explain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Explain! It was the name the IRA used to use on statements/announcements and I was led to believe it was sometimes used when they phoned in warnings of bombings (though that may not be correct). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 49 minutes ago, snowychap said: It was the name the IRA used to use on statements/announcements and I was led to believe it was sometimes used when they phoned in warnings of bombings (though that may not be correct). Learn something new every day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Awol said: Easily read as “congratulations on becoming an occupied country.” This is very dodgy ground, ethically and legally. Looks like Trump has lost his with fight with Washington’s Imperial Guard. Love that first sentence. America is a force for good in the Middle East. Trying to choke back the vomit. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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