chrisp65 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 3 hours ago, magnkarl said: In my opinion both Israel and PA/Hamas needs to be removed from Gaza. What have they got to show for? Both sides have had 70 years to sort things out, Palestinians were offered great parts of the land at multiple points but refused (and when you now look at the same people's bank accounts you can understand why), the Israelis have one way of reacting to everything which is violence, it makes them a pawn in Iran/Russia's geo-political games and extremely unreliable. West-Germany after the war is a model of how it should be done. Get peacekeepers in there to control the aid and money, push Hamas out and start educating the people to a point where prosperity ensures that they're not dependent on running around with their AK-47 because Hamas gives you UN-aid as payment. The Palestinian people have been a pawn for the Arabic world for way too long, and they've suffered at the hands of Israel often because other Arab nations have invaded Israel. We've got to end the mindset that got us here, and that also includes admitting that their side isn't always 100% right in whatever for the hawks on both sides in the world. You would imagine that was sort of the point of the UN. Something that could then be rolled out in places like Haiti where they clearly need a reset. I guess one problem would be what flavour of government gets installed for when the un finally leave. Potentially you spend 10 years rebuilding a country, then the day you leave, its basically the taliban back in charge. Tempting to suggest Germany was an exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) 20 hours ago, chrisp65 said: You would imagine that was sort of the point of the UN. Something that could then be rolled out in places like Haiti where they clearly need a reset. I guess one problem would be what flavour of government gets installed for when the un finally leave. Potentially you spend 10 years rebuilding a country, then the day you leave, its basically the taliban back in charge. Tempting to suggest Germany was an exception. The issue is that Russia would veto it all day every day. It is in Russia, China and Iran's interest that we're squabbling between ourselves over Gaza and Israel when both Putin and Xi have ambitions of taking over other nations. How many hospitals did you read about Putin bombing last week? The number is around 10. When Hamas misfires a rocket into a parking area outside of a Gaza hospital it's the head news for days about how Israel bombs hospitals, people argue, people get stuck, pick a side and in the meantime Putin has bombed another hospital, nursery, theater or hydropower dam in Ukraine. The UN isn't fit for purpose when it is being used to extend the suffering in Gaza for horrible nations' geo-political aims. Edited April 24 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) 23 hours ago, chrisp65 said: You would imagine that was sort of the point of the UN. Something that could then be rolled out in places like Haiti where they clearly need a reset. I guess one problem would be what flavour of government gets installed for when the un finally leave. Potentially you spend 10 years rebuilding a country, then the day you leave, its basically the taliban back in charge. Tempting to suggest Germany was an exception. Germany is quite an unusual example because the Eastern part remained under direct Soviet occupation for nearly fifty years after the end of WW2, and you could make a decent argument that the Western part remained "occupied" by NATO powers during that time too (albeit in a much less coercive manner). That's far longer than most countries get and is probably quite important in terms of building the institutions that a democracy needs to survive. Japan is arguably the more interesting example of success, where they went from a violent military dictatorship to a law-abiding democracy with only 10-15 years of occupation. I do wonder if Gaza is small enough that a stable government could emerge if external peacekeepers managed to drive out the militants and there was a major rebuilding drive from external aid agencies. Obviously Afghanistan was a distaster, but that's a huge country and has always been famously difficult to control. Edited April 24 by Panto_Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Don’t forget, you aren’t allowed to compare him with a Nazi, it’s only allowed the other way around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 25 Moderator Share Posted April 25 "The world cannot stand idly by". Oh come on Ben, if there's one thing you should have noticed about the world... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Bravo to the students risking their future careers for standing up for what’s right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Horrifying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted April 27 VT Supporter Share Posted April 27 A leader addicted to power, who's only ability to stay in power was to align with an extreme right wing party, and they will not let him back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Brits are gonna drive the aid down the new Gaza pier, apparently they will be a target for Hamas. It’s the IDF they should be watching closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 27 Moderator Share Posted April 27 2 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said: A leader addicted to power, who's only ability to stay in power was to align with an extreme right wing party, and they will not let him back down. In this case it isn’t an addiction, it’s a need to keep himself out of jail. He may well be addicted too but the primary motivation here is pretty much to keep himself out of jail 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 That, and that he feels like a genuinely evil person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) Benny is just another Trump, another far-right populist who, if he had lived in another decade would likely be going after more than just Palestine. Narcissistic power-hungry, wannabe dictators even pop up in the ethnicity of the people in the world that have been among the worst sufferers of them. The sooner Benjamin would stop squirming the sooner he'll be put in jail. He's trying to extend the war as long as he can to avoid it. The demonstrations outside places of power in Jerusalem and Tel-Aviv are growing. Edited April 27 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) On 26/04/2024 at 07:26, omariqy said: Bravo to the students risking their future careers for standing up for what’s right. In this case, the students in question weren't targeting people for being Israeli though, they were targeting Jews for being Jews. It's why all the Ivy League university heads were brought before a hearing and absolutely failed at being decent human beings, and several of them later lost their jobs. Go to your local Jewish school and look at whoever protests outside and see if you think they're standing up for what's right against kids aged 6-18. Ganging up on someone for being Jewish or Israeli just because they happened to be born into a family of said nationality or ethnicity doesn't make it 'standing up' for anything. Just like tearing down posters of hostages isn't standing up for anything other than being a massive "%#¤#"%. Bringing your rage to people who have absolutely nothing to do with what is going on in Gaza is just silly, and in most cases that I've seen, implicitly racist. Never ever in my life did I think someone yelling 'Go back to Poland!' to a bunch of students in the US would be seen as 'standing up for what's right'. The mob is let loose once again, and in many cases Jews are the target. Thankfully cooler British and American heads prevail and aid the tiny minorities in the form of police protection - but in my grown life I've never had this much obnoxious racism aimed at people in my community that I have starting on Oct. 7th. It's backed up by several organisations who see direct links between these 'protests' and a dramatic increase in anti-semitisim. Many people just can't contain themselves, they can't separate a state from a people or a religion. It's mind boggling when you see second or third generation Muslims participate in these things when you consider what they went through after 9/11. U.S. Antisemitic Incidents Skyrocketed 360% in Aftermath of Attack in Israel, according to Latest ADL Data In the UK the statistics are even worse. Edited April 27 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 How can he be going to prison? If he is, doesn’t that make life slightly awkward for the enablers like ourselves that support him and prop him up? Or is our defence we didn’t know he used our backing as cover for genocide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 8 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: How can he be going to prison? If he is, doesn’t that make life slightly awkward for the enablers like ourselves that support him and prop him up? Or is our defence we didn’t know he used our backing as cover for genocide? He's got several cases going against him just like Trump. He won't be the first PM that goes to jail in Israeli if he ends up there. He's on trial for corruption at the moment for three different cases. We don't prop Benny up, we prop up Israel. Benny is propped up by the right wing voters in Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 11 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: How can he be going to prison? If he is, doesn’t that make life slightly awkward for the enablers like ourselves that support him and prop him up? Or is our defence we didn’t know he used our backing as cover for genocide? Isn't that for bribes, corruption and such? The crimes against humanity are no biggie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 2 hours ago, magnkarl said: In this case, the students in question weren't targeting people for being Israeli though, they were targeting Jews for being Jews. It's why all the Ivy League university heads were brought before a hearing and absolutely failed at being decent human beings, and several of them later lost their jobs. Go to your local Jewish school and look at whoever protests outside and see if you think they're standing up for what's right against kids aged 6-18. Ganging up on someone for being Jewish or Israeli just because they happened to be born into a family of said nationality or ethnicity doesn't make it 'standing up' for anything. Just like tearing down posters of hostages isn't standing up for anything other than being a massive "%#¤#"%. Bringing your rage to people who have absolutely nothing to do with what is going on in Gaza is just silly, and in most cases that I've seen, implicitly racist. Never ever in my life did I think someone yelling 'Go back to Poland!' to a bunch of students in the US would be seen as 'standing up for what's right'. The mob is let loose once again, and in many cases Jews are the target. Thankfully cooler British and American heads prevail and aid the tiny minorities in the form of police protection - but in my grown life I've never had this much obnoxious racism aimed at people in my community that I have starting on Oct. 7th. It's backed up by several organisations who see direct links between these 'protests' and a dramatic increase in anti-semitisim. Many people just can't contain themselves, they can't separate a state from a people or a religion. It's mind boggling when you see second or third generation Muslims participate in these things when you consider what they went through after 9/11. U.S. Antisemitic Incidents Skyrocketed 360% in Aftermath of Attack in Israel, according to Latest ADL Data In the UK the statistics are even worse. Yeah it’s a big shame and frankly disgusting people can’t separate the two. I wasn’t talking about those incidents tbf. Anyway this picture proves that being Jewish doesn’t equate to supporting Israel policies 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 21 minutes ago, omariqy said: Yeah it’s a big shame and frankly disgusting people can’t separate the two. I wasn’t talking about those incidents tbf. Anyway this picture proves that being Jewish doesn’t equate to supporting Israel policies Which incidents were you talking about? The one where students got arrested at Columbia after shouting 'Go back to Poland', the one at UCC where they're shouting From the riv..., or the one at Harvard where they've had to shut down several student organisations who can't seem to stop being openly confrontational to anyone wearing a kippah? I don't know what's going on at these universities, but it's not looking good. Remember how they were all shouting about racism during the BLM marches? Ironically the same groupings are now behaving like the people they were then saying were racist. The mind boggles. Instead of protesting at the US government, these mouth breathers seem to think that they're going to be getting much done by being offensive to one of America's smallest minorities' students because they happen to somehow be of the same ethnicity and religion as a state waging a brutal war. Edited April 27 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumblerseven Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) On January 26, 2024, Donoghue delivered an interim ruling on South Africa v. Israel on behalf of the ICJ. Edited April 27 by Tumblerseven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 A little girl died today from heat exhaustion, in Gaza. Had she a hospital to attend she may still be alive. Every single death is a tragedy, and there is only one hawkish country responsible. Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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