Xann Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, Xann said: How long have they been preparing? Guess we find out soon? You might find this thread useful: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 13, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, blandy said: I'm loathe to explain, in case you call me dense again, but my take from your original post was that you feel every interview is slanted to put Palestinians kind of second in the pecking order of importance and that the use of Murdered v killed is typical of that kind of media bias (in your view). I haven't noticed that to be the case. When you said I can't be that dense (though I am presumably a bit dense, in your view, from what you said), I just posted your two extracts from what you wrote, to try to show what I was getting at. Anyway, I don't want to rile anyone or fall out, so I'll leave it. No. Killed v died is just an example of the kind of bias most right thinking people can see. Your comment seemed to suggest you thought I thought Palestinians are never reported as having been killed, which is absurd. Your confusion over my comment on Palestinians being secondary is elaborated on in my further comments - in essence that Palestinian voices are subservient to the Israeli aligned narrative and that reporting on their suffering is rarely with the acknowledgement that this suffering is caused by Israelis actions and that that should have some focus of the narrative with Palestinians given the drive of the reporting and that having some real weight behind it. Instead they're just the wallpaper of balance, with little real weight to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted October 13, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2023 4 hours ago, blandy said: Perhaps because there's something already "priced in" to the reporting we see? It's this: Basically, out of the blue Hamas perpetrated horrific mass murder of civilians, kidnap, mutilation and so on. The reporting is therefore reflective of that shock and horror. Next, there's the consideration that "Israel can't not respond" - if Israel does not take major steps, then it's license for Hamas to do it again. The question, then is "how badly will Israel behave in response", or "how much care will Israel take in responding". So because it's understood that Israel will respond to the brutal murder of a large number of civilians, and they will take at least some care (if only to try and preserve the lives of the hostages), that's why it's a bit slanted, perhaps? I assume, if you were to watch one of the Middle Eastern TV channels, the coverage would be slanted the other way - not necessarily because of "support" for Hamas, but because they would see it as "inevitable that at some point Hamas would respond to the imprisonment of the Palestinian people, but what's not predictable is the extent of the terror for the people of Palestine that Israel unleashes" They don’t appear to be taking any care to me. They’re wiping them out (maybe literally) But the reporting seems to be that this is all just a normal response 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just as an aside, it’s not just the acute / biased hearing of VT, on BBC R4 Feedback just after this was being discussed, the same question came up from a listener, why the reporting of murdered vs dead. That they chose that as one of this weeks questions, suggests a number of BBC R4 listeners had picked up on it. The spokesperson from the BBC gave an answer but it was a bit of a non-answer about language being important and reporters having free will. I didn’t feel he really answered it. (for balance, they also had a question on why the BBC appeared to be so reticent to call Hamas terrorists) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 13, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2023 i do wonder what will happen to North Gaza at the end of this - if the Israelis clear out the civilians, install ground troops and effectively occupy it, with a de facto border at the river between it and the rest of Gaza - I can't see them giving it back - at best I can see a divided Gaza that's easier to control and at worst I think they'll just continue to occupy it and make it a part of Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Awol said: You might find this thread useful Cheers, but I'm not on there and it doesn't let me look at the thread. Don't want to think about it too much. If Israel gets another surprise bloody nose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 13, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, Chindie said: Your comment seemed to suggest you thought I thought Palestinians are never reported as having been killed Now it's my turn - Que? I didn't post anything to remotely suggest that - it would, as you say, be absurd. I think we're at completely cross purposes, but I have no idea why or what's caused that to happen. I agree with you that I'd want better coverage of the Palestinian side of things, though I think there are some practical difficulties. I disagree that the UK media hides or hopes to hide war crimes by Israel. I agree that sometimes media outlets go more strongly with one side's take than the other's and that more often it is the Israeli angle which gets put across, but sometimes it's the other way round, I think, too. I think various people who have a "side" are very sensitive to their side being overlooked, or their angle being overlooked or not given enough prominence and it's also the case that Israel's side of things is more effectively pushed by their organisations, via complaints and statements and so on. Their media management teams are dedicated to that side of things, Palestine has no equivalent set of people to contact ITV or BBC or Sky and complain about tiny perceived slights, or things they don't like. In so many ways it's an unequal fight for Palestine. I don't feel it is the job of our media to boost up Palestinian viewpoints to compensate for that inequality, but I do think they should endeavour to give balanced coverage and almost caveat some of the Israeli bluster with factual statements - like "it is a war crime to target (even) military targets where they are also occupied by, or put at risk, large numbers of civilians", or it is a breach of humanitarian law to deprive civilian populations of electricity or water or food or medical aid" - so that the reader or viewer is given a clear understanding of what Israeli action is legal and what is not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 13, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2023 17 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: They don’t appear to be taking any care to me. They’re wiping them out (maybe literally) But the reporting seems to be that this is all just a normal response I agree, Just saw your post after my one (presumably closely above this post). edit - directly before this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 23 minutes ago, Awol said: You might find this thread useful: From a purely strategical perspective, Israel will need resolve the Gaza situation as quickly as possible. The Hamas atrocities seem specifically pre-planned to incite the most obvious response (invasion of Gaza). Having done so, IDF cannot bring to muster their forces both at Gaza, and at the West Bank, and at the Lebanon/Syria border. You can even imagine a situation where the IDF re-occupies Gaza but Hamas' purpose is to irritate and distract with an insurgency long enough for Lebanon/Syria to invade the northern corridor. Would the axis of resistance be so bold? I struggle to think they would be, but if they were, that is why I assume there are two US carriers parked off the coast. A lot of the verbiage from the US is much of the same - don't move Lebanon/Syria. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 It's not just the BBC, here's Sky doing the same thing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 13, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2023 i think the US would quietly welcome the opportunity to bomb Iran flat if it arose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, DJBOB said: From a purely strategical perspective, Israel will need resolve the Gaza situation as quickly as possible. The Hamas atrocities seem specifically pre-planned to incite the most obvious response (invasion of Gaza). Having done so, IDF cannot bring to muster their forces both at Gaza, and at the West Bank, and at the Lebanon/Syria border. You can even imagine a situation where the IDF re-occupies Gaza but Hamas' purpose is to irritate and distract with an insurgency long enough for Lebanon/Syria to invade the northern corridor. Would the axis of resistance be so bold? I struggle to think they would be, but if they were, that is why I assume there are two US carriers parked off the coast. A lot of the verbiage from the US is much of the same - don't move Lebanon/Syria. Good analysis, except Israel has mobilised 350K reservists and as you rightly highlight, the US will enter if/when Hezbollah commits properly (you’ll know that when they are launching 1000’s of rockets). Short version, the IDF can manage it. Israel will also go after Assad and Hezbollah’s strategic depth in Syria and Iraq - already happening on a small scale. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just had to switch the news off again cos some nobby politician is slating the FA for not lighting up the Wembley arch in Israel colours. Then likens it to Ukraine and Bataclan. Jesus wept, maybe they should light it up red. I'm fed up of how pro Israel you need to be 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Edit: unnecessary Edited October 13, 2023 by LondonLax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 13, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, LondonLax said: You speak in absolutes until it is pointed out to you where this is not the case and you get defensive. Do I? Others speak like well to do middle class dads ruffling the kids hair and pointing out how stupid they are, when the reality is more questionable. Eventually it irks. '' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Whats the end game for Israel do you think? Complete flattening of Gaza to get to Hamas? Will they go after Hezbollah afterwards, and ultimately Iran? Edited October 13, 2023 by Xela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 40 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: i think the US would quietly welcome the opportunity to bomb Iran flat if it arose. Some Republican portions, yes. Probably the defense contractor portions as well. But the populace as a whole, aside from your Republican fanatics, don't have the stomach for war. Still too scarred from the last few and content with handwringing over a problem that's half the world away for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 13, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, Xela said: Whats the end game for Israel do you think? Complete flattening of Gaza to get to Hamas? Will they go after Hezbollah after, and ultimately Iran? From the river to the sea. Some might say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Xela said: Whats the end game for Israel do you think? Complete flattening of Gaza to get to Hamas? Will they go after Hezbollah after, and ultimately Iran? I think the most likely answer is the destruction, re-occupation, and integration of Gaza. I struggle to see them going after Hezbollah and Iran without US backing and it's not one the US is willing to give at this time. Edited October 13, 2023 by DJBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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